Madocean
Verified Member
Yeah Strange's sourceable blood move gives me a lot of hope for that one
-
Hello Guest! Did you know that ProjectKorra has an official Discord server? A lot of discussion about the official server, development process, and community discussion happens over there. Feel free to join now by clicking the link below.
Join the Discord Server
Debate: Should Self-SurgeJet work on Land?
- Thread starter MeskenasBoii
- Start date
FirePro7860
Verified Member
Remember the second episode from aang? When he enters the avatarstate he emerges from the water ON A WATERSPOUT as we know it, in korra that move was used several times as well
Next time do your research (yes I'm an avatar nerd, deal with it)
FirePro7860
Verified Member
I agree with that, in water, let self surging stay, on land or nerve it or remove it all together
Madocean
Verified Member
I mean there are two ways you could fix this issue. Small surge on land. A little bulbous ball of water 2-4x3 that pushes you some 10-20 blocks rather than the usual 25-30. Would just look better anyways. This way surge can viably keep its functionality while actually receiving a logical and aesthetic upgrade.
Then there's the matter of sourcing which could also be a solution. Gimbal style sourcing where it takes 5 grass blocks to source a surge or something. Something notable to me is that there is 37.5 QUADRILLION gallons of water in the atmosphere :I Yet waterbenders make legit NO use of it. Hama displayed like some tiny ass claws. Waterbenders have been shown to be able to freeze MOVING water, if they can do that, they can DEFINITELY cool some of the water from the atmosphere to condense it and create a source. So yeah #airsourcing and #bettergeneralsourcemechanics also #revampsurge?
MeskenasBoii
Verified Member
What's the point of having waterwave then? Doesn't surge defeat the purpose. While yes, waterwave can ascend you onto a tree, but still... why is surge is needed? It is quicker, but should waterbenders really must have that?
NickC1211
Verified Member
Maybe waterwave should get a change then we can get rid of surge it should be less of a quick burst and more of a:
NickC1211
Verified Member
I don't really want to but if people truly insist on getting rid of surge jet I want waterbenders fully compensated
Madocean
Verified Member
I mean. My arguement is as stated: Don't remove fun gameplay mechanics because they're fun and I've given the reasons that they can be viable in terms of balance and in terms of canon. Delving into the dispute itself; As a reply to the waterwave > surge arguement, waterwave = long, directable and slow. Surge = short, linear and fast. Certain aspects of both moves take skill, just different types: surge takes more skill to source and control generally having a skill demanding execution while being a somewhat unpredictable and robust form of mobility demanding mechanical skill due to these factors. Comparing waterwave, its' VERY easy to control, VERY easy to source and VERY easy to execute. However it's also VERY easy to counter, VERY easy to predict and VERY hard to time it's more of a strategically demanding move because of this. So something to note is that you won't see a ton of begginers just surging gracefully around arenas, it's hard even for some long-time benders. The challenges and benefits pretaining to its mechanics are what make it a fun move. I could compare it to surfing with a blindfold. Chaining surges is imo the most exhilarating part of the entire plugin (aside from chaining airblasts as you can hear yuki claim). It's what makes water feel fluid. Waterwave is really easy to manuever and execute, doesn't matter where you are in relation to a source as long as you're within select range. You get wherever you want PRECISELY with ease, the expense is speed and predictability. What make's waterwave fun is landing an icewave, or managing to dodge an attack with one. It feels very accomplishing because it's like playing a game of chess starting with no pawns. Both moves compliment the deficits that the other move creates and the advantages the other one brings. They're a balance. You cant really replace either one after removing the other. Just doesn't work. Both of them bring necessary aspects of depth to the mechanics of water. Now a reply to Nick's gif. That should be a form of mobility, it could bring to the table the only thing water mobility lacks right now: the ability to attack while moving. Surge and wave both disallow this. You have to attack before or after you activate/finish executing the move. I mean you can use moves on surge, but your burst of movement is like literally less than a second so... It's inconsequential. Anyways my fingers hurt I'll finish and revise these thoughts later
xNuminousx
Verified Member
Gonna break my silence to say......
This made me LOL. Surge and WaterWave both have the same sourcing concept, only difference is that one you click and one you shift.... Why would you say one is easier where one is harder? Just completely false. If anything, I have a harder time selecting my WaterSpout as a source because half the time I accidentally break the plant I'm trying to use as a source. Surge is so much easier because you don't have to worry about breaking your source, if it's a plant.
You seem to be completely disregarding any sort of logic or anything we saw from the show just because it's fun...
We don't want to remove it/change it because it's fun, we want to remove/change it because it is impractical to the point of cringe. Water has so many cheap advantages such as octotraping, surge jetting, and bloodbending. There's a reason why the first two have their own term, because they're so popular and used so often. They're cheap because their easy to do and easy to "win."
You're giving Surge WAY too much credit.... Even when I first started Waterbending surge-jetting was easy.
That's the point.....
It's equally as difficult as Surge, if not MORE due to the circumstance I listed above.
WaterWave requires more thought process and skill than Surge tbh... With Surge it's all done for you. You're ZOOMED to another dimension without having to worry about kinetic damage or enemies. You just click and then you're 100 blocks away...... Where as with WaterWave you have a few moments of vulnerability as your wave forms, then you are decently vulnerable as the movement is decently slow, then if you're not experienced you probably didn't land near water....
It's not VERY easy to counter, since the player is generally protected by water and most moves won't penetrate water. The only way someone can get you is if you're going straight for them.... I would use my opportunities to get towards a water source but okay.
In servers that haven't nerfed it I actually see it everywhere....
Any decent-good waterbender I can name could do it just fine...
So your argument and only way to balance it is that you can't direct it after you've clicked... But you ignore the speeds at which they are surged..... And the lack of skill required to execute it....
Anyways, I'm done. That post just made me cringe... You're trying to justify something by using a bit of fallacy. You should be lawyer!
Going to retreat back to darkness now.
Madocean
Verified Member
Jesus christ. This reply is a NIGHTMARE to navigate .-. Most of this is just dishonest tbh... Most points I have to THINK to debunk, these ones are child's play. Firstly. Waterwave has an autosource option, that actually works. Lol. EVERY server I play has it on. Also, you dont just SOURCE surge. You position yourself so that the surge can effectively carry you, if this is disrupted or done slightly improperly it basically ruins the entire surge. Waterwave can be sourced from INSIDE AN EARTHGRAB .-. Surge cant attest to sourceability anywher NEAR that. Therefore it is 1000x easier to source wave. One down.
Secondly I HIGHLY doubt that you can anywhere NEAR match a jet from Dog or me .-. I said GRACEFULLY. I can chain up to 5 in a windy river. Accomplish that, come back and tell me it's easy before you simply dismiss it .-.
Okay so AGAIN regarding the skill required to EXECUTE the moves. Here's some math. A ratio. On a scale of 1-10 heres where surge and wave are. Surge: 6 Wave: 1 :I I'll further explain where the skill comes in. I can land within about 9 blocks of my intended destination 100% of the time with surge. Y'know why? Because I've mastered its aoe, it's n o t e a s y. Again PLEASE demonstrate that yourself. Waterwave = source and guide the move. Surge = Position PERFECTLY in regards to your intentions, calculate trajectory and use the move. These moves are nowhere near eachother in skill demand, or in execution.
Okay a reply to:
"Its not VERY easy to counter, since the player is generally protected by water and most moves won't penetrate water. The only way someone can get you is if you're going straight for them.... I would use my opportunities to get towards a source but okay."
"Its not VERY easy to counter, since the player is generally protected by water and most moves won't penetrate water." You can surge freeze someone as soon as you see the ring form around them .-. It's VERY EASY to stop it literally instantaneously. That freeze is actually twice as disorienting as a regular surge freeze too because it's so unexpected and forces the opponent to CANCEL the wave demanding an input, while the opponent can begin dealing damage. "The only way someone can get you is if you're going straight for them...." unless the wave speed is EXCESSIVELY fast, its excessively easy to hit someone on wave, You can get 1-3 hearts of damage with manip and gimbal on someone whose JUST evading you with wave, because of how slow and predictable it is. "I would use my opportunities to get towards a source but okay." the relevant wave interactions are the ones that happen close to a source. Those are the scenarios I'm tackling right now.
Okay so here's what actually pisses me off:
"WaterWave requires more thought process and skill than Surge tbh... With Surge it's all done for you. You're ZOOMED to another dimension without having to worry about kinetic damage or enemies. You just click and then you're 100 blocks away...... Where as with WaterWave you have a few moments of vulnerability as your wave forms, then you are decently vulnerable as the movement is decently slow, then if you're not experienced you probably didn't land near water...."
For one, I already COVERED the fact that waterwave is more strategically demanding? Secondly, you've just contradicted yourself:
"Its not VERY easy to counter, since the player is generally protected by water and most moves won't penetrate water. The only way someone can get you is if you're going straight for them.... I would use my opportunities to get towards a source but okay."
"WaterWave requires more thought process and skill than Surge tbh... With Surge it's all done for you. You're ZOOMED to another dimension without having to worry about kinetic damage or enemies. You just click and then you're 100 blocks away...... Where as with WaterWave you have a few moments of vulnerability as your wave forms, then you are decently vulnerable as the movement is decently slow, then if you're not experienced you probably didn't land near water...."
Pls make up your mind
Now tackling the claims... Firstly, no .-. , you arent just "ZOOMED" You have to again, calculate trajectory and position for the source. THEN if you mess up or are hit in any way, you either dont move, or dont move anywhere near where you want to. You can't ALTER the course of a surge. Meaning that if your opponent decides to i dont know GET IN FRONT OF YOU you're made susceptible to attack. For waterwave you legit select the source and can move in ANY which direction, you don't have to commit to a destination, making it way less dangerous, and most importantly, you can't STOP a waterwave after its begun. During surge you're ALWAYS vulnerable. During the sourcing as I've explained multiple times. During the course, You can interfere with a surge by using pretty much any move that does damage, knockback or velocity. At the destination, if reached, you have to regain your footing, as you've been moving very fast and need to make sure you dont take fall or land in a bad position. Again you can change the trajectory of a wave, so you don't have to commit. The only downside to making a mistake with wave is that you end up in a neutral position, meaning you've gotten nowhere.
"Anyways, I'm done. That post just made me cringe... You're trying to justify something by using a bit of fallacy. You should be lawyer!"
I mean all the men in my family before me have been respectable lawyers so, I don't see why not.
That just made me cry. After replying with points that hold LITERALLY no ground, you tell me that i used fallacy T_T I'm DEAD. You decided to come at a post because it praised FUN in a game COMPLIMENTING canon. Guess it just didn't sit for you. Anyways, using COMPLETELY fallacious points to incite a political arguement, you should become a politician!
Last edited:
MeskenasBoii
Verified Member
Might read all your comments later within few minutes (cuz I find difficulty to do it on the phone and seperate sections for all my counterarguments) and edit this comment later.
However I did you mention that you're changes 'will make it canon', I disagree. Again, you're not provinding evidence. Waterbenders always had to charge/wait/delay before waterwaving (or in your respective - "surgejet"). Also, it doesn't look nothing like Surge in that matter.
================================================================================================================================================
"Chaining" doesn't sound anything like it would be canon. Every waterbender I remember only mobiled-away only once, not twice or threehold.
Also, may I point out that "fun" doesn't always translate or work well with the following factors: balance, canon and immersion:
* If waterbenders had an ability that caused 7 hearts without a cooldown, it doesn't mean its ok just because its fun to the user to kill streak with easy (of course there are always configuration for these, but that shouldn't be excuse for players that don't manage the server who only try to enjoy bending).
* Just cuz its fun for waterbenders to use a flight form through waterhoverboars (like literally fly with a hoverboard constructed of water, it doesn't it should stay because it isn't appriopate and just breaks immersion. That's why I dislike waterspout-surgeboard hack, and I wish to be remember once the whole waterbendings is revamped with changes that gradually lead to it being necessary remember at the right time.
================================================================================================================================================
================================================================================================================================================
Surging others = ok.
Surging self = not ok! Waterwave does the job and improve something from that ability.
Besides, they're removing self-airblast technique and will be creating a balance alternative for that. I still don't reason PK shouldn't and why they should side only with airbending on that nerf.
================================================================================================================================================
However I did you mention that you're changes 'will make it canon', I disagree. Again, you're not provinding evidence. Waterbenders always had to charge/wait/delay before waterwaving (or in your respective - "surgejet"). Also, it doesn't look nothing like Surge in that matter.
================================================================================================================================================
"Chaining" doesn't sound anything like it would be canon. Every waterbender I remember only mobiled-away only once, not twice or threehold.
Also, may I point out that "fun" doesn't always translate or work well with the following factors: balance, canon and immersion:
* If waterbenders had an ability that caused 7 hearts without a cooldown, it doesn't mean its ok just because its fun to the user to kill streak with easy (of course there are always configuration for these, but that shouldn't be excuse for players that don't manage the server who only try to enjoy bending).
* Just cuz its fun for waterbenders to use a flight form through waterhoverboars (like literally fly with a hoverboard constructed of water, it doesn't it should stay because it isn't appriopate and just breaks immersion. That's why I dislike waterspout-surgeboard hack, and I wish to be remember once the whole waterbendings is revamped with changes that gradually lead to it being necessary remember at the right time.
================================================================================================================================================
I have ideas for icewaves changed, including the application katara is using. That, however, will be for another thread.Maybe waterwave should get a change then we can get rid of surge it should be less of a quick burst and more of a:
================================================================================================================================================
Self-surge jetting. Don't know If you got the idea, but I'm just stressing out that I'm being specific.
Surging others = ok.
Surging self = not ok! Waterwave does the job and improve something from that ability.
Besides, they're removing self-airblast technique and will be creating a balance alternative for that. I still don't reason PK shouldn't and why they should side only with airbending on that nerf.
================================================================================================================================================
Last edited:
Madocean
Verified Member
Okay this one's just kind of a mess. Yet another reply failing to disprove even one arguement. There's just no consensus achieved in conversations like these. BOTH sides should at least take the time to CONSIDER what they've read from the other, or we'll get nowhere .
-Firstly, I don't think you really read into my changes for one. Secondly I only gave a very brief explanation, of my actual thoughts. Thirdly my evidence is LOGIC (But ill include like 5 Gifs in a spoiler towards the bottom anyways)
-Chaining. This one's easy. I mean if you can catch two waves consecutively while surfing (which I've actually managed a couple times) You can catch two of your OWN waves i assume fairly easily. There's absolutely nothing about this that doesn't make sense, it's just logic.
-Okay so I'm just gonna rebut the degradation of the idea of 'FUN' in a plugin with my favorite recipe: simple logic. Fun is literally the most important part of any plugin contrary to what you imply. Foremost in the topics covered, I always have balance in mind. I'm a competitive bender .-. Noone wants to see 7 heart water moves, although instakill water moves ARE canon, I mean EVERY element could instakill someone, which is a HUGE part of canon lol. The rest of your arguement there is just lazy, I'll debunk it with a couple gifs.
-Your arguement against self surge-jet is lackluster. "Surging others = ok, Surging self = not ok" Uh if you can push someone else you can push yourself ._. SIMPLE LOGIC. Either keep jet or remove surge alltogether by that logic. Waterwave DOES NOT do the job .-. I've played on a good few servers with no functioning surgejet, they're ALL bland. None of them had fast paced, engaging or intuitive combat... I REALLY doubt that that's something our community would like to see the plugin delve into. Covering the actual functionalities of the move, as I literally explained ONE comment above; Wave & Jet are very different, they have very different uses and contribute VERY different aspects of fun and balance to water's mechanics.
Covering your last arguement here. It's really obvious why airblast > surge. Airblast can be sourced anywhere, Airblast can be used to propel you a constant distance in ANY direction... And airblast is WAY more powerful and fast than surge. Airblast is just infinitely too powerful, and infinitely too versatile to balance. Surge can definitely be balanced. Again JUST the changes I presented could make it canon and more balanced. Limiting it a bit more to source could easily finish the balance aspect. I just don't see why you'd remove a great mechanic like this. There's no reason to remove the great concept of surge, when you can just WATER it down. Ik I'm horrible. I have some ideas on this that I'll discuss if you'd like.
The Gifs:
Explanation:
I actually don't feel the need to show the other three gifs after reviewing the simple two. I'll explain. Gif 1 is just, it literally debunks your entire arguement single-handedly(especially the "waterhoverboarders" thing. One, Ming Hua's hovering. Two, She propels herself like 10 feet in the air with a puddle... Forming a spout in the process no less. Three, she's using WATERARMS on spout, BEFORE spout especially. Lastly, the stream Kya uses to knock Ming Hua INTO a wall displays that JUST the front area of that water can propel someone around 15-20 feet. Surgejet is displayed as EASILY canon merely by LOGIC. There are PLENTY of these moments shown throughout the series, literally look up "waterbending" and you can find an example of this in seconds. Gif 2 is kind of cut short but still conveys effectively the concept that water can propel someone like surge & how it's relevant to combat. Also some of the stuff I want to see happen in water mechanics. If you want the other gifs, just say so and I'll add them. I doubt you could warrant their necessity however.
NickC1211
Verified Member
You guys seem to have wonderful ideas but can we please keep it brief xD some of y'all are making suggestions
Madocean
Verified Member
Trueeee...
MeskenasBoii
Verified Member
What she did isn't a hover board. That's a waterspout-esque. I was referring to the construct that is off HOVERING from the ground in mid-air without support. Ming-hua on the hand (or no hand, if you like to put it literally) ascend with the water still intact with the ground. In no way it was hovering/floating away from it or any other solid surface such a wall. Again, you fail to realize that I'm talking about self-surgejetting. Those gifs aren't providing evidence that self-surgejetting is possible. They prove my points further, and here's why. If it was possible, answer this questions:
1)Why waterbenders always had to charge before "surging" themselves up to places? *cough* It is WATERWAVE *cough*
2)Why does it look more of a stream than a wall? *cough* waterwave *cough*
3)Why does it look slower in the show than in the game? *cough* waterwave *cough*
- My response to the #1 one: They couldn't, because If they could why wouldn't they "surged" (aka the true waterwave) away? It would be dump of their part, because why would they waste time on delaying? Doesn't seem like a practical thinking to my perspective.
- #2 is probably obvious enough to be true without putting much detailed, so I'm skip and go straight to #3: It is slower, because again, they would have jetted faster like how it is in the game, but they didn't. Why? Again, If they could, why those idiots were slowpokes. It's impractical, thus they could have bursted themselves at the speed of a light (in a figurative sense).
They already have plans to nerf airblast by removing sourcing. So again, what is there to stop the devs from removing the alternative for waterbenders. Otherwise, if they wouldn't, I can than just look at them as bias airbenders that unfairly siding for airbending.
"Uh if you can push someone else you can push yourself ._. SIMPLE LOGIC. Either keep jet or remove surge alltogether by that logic. Waterwave DOES NOT do the job .-. I've played on a good few servers with no functioning surgejet, they're ALL bland. None of them had fast paced, engaging or intuitive combat... I REALLY doubt that that's something our community would like to see the plugin delve into. Covering the actual functionalities of the move, as I literally explained ONE comment above; Wave & Jet are very different, they have very different uses and contribute VERY different aspects of fun and balance to water's mechanics."
You can push yourself, but again:
1. Not at the speed of light (; lack of chargetime + too fast paced).
2. Not with the help of a smooth WALL looking thing (; lack of appriopate shape/design).
All of the above LOGICAL points can be recreated by simply putting a code in SURGE that ignores the user (creates a gap when approaching him) and just leaving waterbenders to rely on waterwave. And before you say anything - do have evidence? If you do that proves the above two listed facts wrong, that will be enough to justify that surging others and surging yourself are no different, as well giving a good reason why my request shouldn't touch it.
Chaining: it just about catching the wave. It is about how many times you can create it to catch and travel a long. There's a reason why every ability has a cooldown, including waterspout's wave (I always refer to it as "waterwave" - the left-sneak-letgo feature, just If you haven't by know, which might lead you to misconfuse it to surge and result in a stupid heated debate), because waterbenders and every benders gets fatigue/tired over bending something over and over again. Considering that creating a wave in general takes a lot of effort and energy to form it for an average bender, it would used it up a lot of the benders power and make them tired with only one try, and hence why I'm arguing from the speculative hypothes that waterbenders should get their Waterwave put on a cooldown straight after its used.
"-Okay so I'm just gonna rebut the degradation of the idea of 'FUN' in a plugin with my favorite recipe: simple logic. Fun is literally the most important part of any plugin contrary to what you imply. Foremost in the topics covered, I always have balance in mind. I'm a competitive bender .-. Noone wants to see 7 heart water moves, although instakill water moves ARE canon, I mean EVERY element could instakill someone, which is a HUGE part of canon lol. The rest of your arguement there is just lazy, I'll debunk it with a couple gifs."
Lol, I wanted to use the above example as a counterargument to this comment, but I timed it wrong because well you already referred to it lol. Anyway, logic shouldn't the only factor to put focus on the fun aspect. Like as you said, for example combustion should deal 20 because your fucking blastin an explosive beam. It's logic, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't label "fun" just cause it is presented in particular so.
Last edited:
MeskenasBoii
Verified Member
Too summarize in a verdict ; TL;DR version :
1) Logic isn't always the label for "fun". (e.g, logically combustion killing you in a instant: ain't fun)
2) Devs have plans to nerf airblast (i.e. remove sourcing) and replace it with AirJump-alike custom ability as a stock, so I don't see why they shouldn't remove waterbending counterpart (i.e. self-SurgeTsunami).
4)Ming-hua used waterspout-esque, not a hoverboard (water wasn't suspending and hovering of the ground or any other solid surface, such as a wall, so it was intact with the ground hence not hovering).
1) Logic isn't always the label for "fun". (e.g, logically combustion killing you in a instant: ain't fun)
2) Devs have plans to nerf airblast (i.e. remove sourcing) and replace it with AirJump-alike custom ability as a stock, so I don't see why they shouldn't remove waterbending counterpart (i.e. self-SurgeTsunami).
- Otherwise, that leaves them bias airbenders with unfair one-sided choice (#WaterbenderLivesMatter).
a)Surging-yourself takes chargetime. (argument why should waterspout be used instead of surge)
b)Surging-yourself is short-paced, not fast. (argument why should waterspout be used instead of surge)
c)Surging-yourself wave doesn't look accurate, i.e. to flat wall looking (minor, but still an argument...)
- Every waterbender I see met those criterias when they used your speculated "surge". It is just waterwave (again, waterspout-left click feature, If you haven't notice by now...), nothing more or less. Pushing/Knocking off others is just the real SURGE, minus the c# point (that's up for another talk, but like I said it's a minor flaw, which isn't worth of looking as the A# and B# outweighs its mild focus)b)Surging-yourself is short-paced, not fast. (argument why should waterspout be used instead of surge)
c)Surging-yourself wave doesn't look accurate, i.e. to flat wall looking (minor, but still an argument...)
4)Ming-hua used waterspout-esque, not a hoverboard (water wasn't suspending and hovering of the ground or any other solid surface, such as a wall, so it was intact with the ground hence not hovering).
Last edited:
Madocean
Verified Member
Okay so, for 1) here i don't see the arguement. 2) I explained that up there, again if you want to hear my ideas for the proper nerf, I'd love to explain them
- Not sure what you're trying to imply in this bullet point sentence but it sounds very progressive
-It's not waterwave tho .-. Waterwave is continuous and directable. Huge difference. You complain about canon so I fix it and now you say I'm using canon logic to justify a move and it's copying. You're giving me no room here. Not sure what you're saying towards the end here, please explain.
4) Uh, she was hovering for one, air is a fluid, air is used to make hovercrafts hover SHE was not touching anything other than the water, how is water different? They have water jetpacks/hoverboards it's considered flying/hovering. Hovering is mostly just a position relative to the ground, like gliding or flying, except it's more consistent and constant. You're the one who called surge hovering which is one of the most inaccurate descriptions I've ever heard. I was simply justifying it. However now that I've taken a look at Ming Hua's use of spout, I'd REALLY like to see that become a land mechanic, it could help you carry source and everything.
MeskenasBoii
Verified Member
1) how the heck isn't that an argument.
2) I suggest you share your ideas for a nerf to devs, not me. As far as they stick with their plans, I'm not gonna change mind set about what I said on this part.
4)Your not getting my point. Yes she was hovering with the help of water, but WATER itself wasn't hovering. Hence the name water-hoverboard. In analogy, that like me pointing out that hoverboards aren't invented yet, but you happen to argue that "Yes, they are. People use elevators, and thus its a hover board because people are hovering with the help of a ascending box that is supported by the shaft, which is intact with the ground".
^^^^ this is what I mean by water hover board. What Ming-hua did wasn't close to a hover water, the water was touching ground. I would call that a watervortex/spout/tornado, but not a hoverboard. That would be like calling a tower a hoverboard because people that are stand on top it are hovering, according to your misconception and perspective/definition.
First of, the speed of sending others is fast/quick (which holds true from the cartoon and minecraft), while the speed of sending yourself is slow (which holds true from the cartoon, but not in minecraft).
Secondly, sending others doesn't a require a chargetime (true in minecraft and the show), but sending yourself does (true in the cartoon, but not in the game).
I just explain the differences between pushing others and pushing yourself. Factors that leave them to be different different: speed and charge. Pushing others is fast and pusing yourself is lower + pushing others doesn't require the user to charge and pushing yourself however does require a chargetime.
2) I suggest you share your ideas for a nerf to devs, not me. As far as they stick with their plans, I'm not gonna change mind set about what I said on this part.
4)Your not getting my point. Yes she was hovering with the help of water, but WATER itself wasn't hovering. Hence the name water-hoverboard. In analogy, that like me pointing out that hoverboards aren't invented yet, but you happen to argue that "Yes, they are. People use elevators, and thus its a hover board because people are hovering with the help of a ascending box that is supported by the shaft, which is intact with the ground".
^^^^ this is what I mean by water hover board. What Ming-hua did wasn't close to a hover water, the water was touching ground. I would call that a watervortex/spout/tornado, but not a hoverboard. That would be like calling a tower a hoverboard because people that are stand on top it are hovering, according to your misconception and perspective/definition.
It isn't, in the show. I gave you three arguments as to why.
First of, the speed of sending others is fast/quick (which holds true from the cartoon and minecraft), while the speed of sending yourself is slow (which holds true from the cartoon, but not in minecraft).
Secondly, sending others doesn't a require a chargetime (true in minecraft and the show), but sending yourself does (true in the cartoon, but not in the game).
I just explain the differences between pushing others and pushing yourself. Factors that leave them to be different different: speed and charge. Pushing others is fast and pusing yourself is lower + pushing others doesn't require the user to charge and pushing yourself however does require a chargetime.
Last edited:
Madocean
Verified Member
Lol so1) how the heck isn't that an argument.
2) I suggest you share your ideas for a nerf to devs, not me. As far as they stick with their plans, I'm not gonna change mind set about what I said on this part.
4)Your not getting my point. Yes she was hovering with the help of water, but WATER itself wasn't hovering. Hence the name water-hoverboard. In analogy, that like me pointing out that hoverboards aren't invented yet, but you happen to argue that "Yes, they are. People use elevators, and thus its a hover board because people are hovering with the help of a ascending box that is supported by the shaft, which is intact with the ground".
^^^^ this is what I mean by water hover board. What Ming-hua did wasn't close to a hover water, the water was touching ground. I would call that a watervortex/spout/tornado, but not a hoverboard. That would be like calling a tower a hoverboard because people that are stand on top it are hovering, according to your misconception and perspective/definition.
It isn't, in the show. I gave you three arguments as to why.
First of, the speed of sending others is fast/quick (which holds true from the cartoon and minecraft), while the speed of sending yourself is slow (which holds true from the cartoon, but not in minecraft).
Secondly, sending others doesn't a require a chargetime (true in minecraft and the show), but sending yourself does (true in the cartoon, but not in the game).
I just explain the differences between pushing others and pushing yourself. Factors that leave them to be different different: speed and charge. Pushing others is fast and pusing yourself is lower + pushing others doesn't require the user to charge and pushing yourself however does require a chargetime.
1) Noone is going to argue with you about that .-. Even though you seem to want surge to deal damage...
2) If you're not going to change your mindset why are you a r g u i n g? I know it's the norm with all the progressives running rampant today but it's not how arguing works.
3) You skipped a number lmao
4) Here's a gif where someone hovers with water by your definition xD "not touching the ground"
It's pretty obvious that waterbenders can hover though. We've seen enormous balls of water suspended in the air, WITH PEOPLE IN THEM NO LESS, so I don't understand why you want to argue this.
Lol your entire hovering arguement is a clear diversion, it's irrelevant to the topic and fallacious.
"It isn't in the show" That's the worst basis of an arguement I've heard since: "I dont like you" Just because something isnt DIRECTLY displayed in the show DOESN'T mean the show hasn't displayed its possibility. .-. People like you said lavabending wasn't possible before Ghazan...
Okay so I still don't understand what you're saying here. Something about charge times... In the show everything is accomplished through movements, which are SLOW compared to inputs in game. If we followed a strict charge regulation for every move because of the form you'd have to execute, combat would be slower than fighting in smash 64...
Oh my god. Pushing you and pushing yourself is AGAIN the same thing .-. The only difference is that you're not pushing a different person AND by logic, pushing yourself should be WAY faster .-. You're IN the substance you're bending, being in closer proximity has always prompted better/more powerful control. This arguement is becoming tiring due to the lack of intellectual honesty in most of your statements.