Debate: Should Self-SurgeJet work on Land?

[MeskenasBoii]

Yeah, but there some who disagree with nerfing plant-waterbending to become realistic. Some steps should be taken before The Team decides just straight away "balance" it. And like you said, waterbending as a whole should be fixed.

JedCore helps out in that aspect. #ShoutOutToFrostBreath

I honestly Hate FrostBreath. It may be good that it creates snow, but that it can freeze someone.... smh! FrostBreath I imagine should only freeze those were "wet" (basically, a timer after they establishing physical contact with water) and create ice in deep waters (the new phasechange right now forms ice platforms). That's how it was portrayed in canon anyway.

 

[xNuminousx]

but that it can freeze someone.... smh

Hama did mention that there's water in places you'd never even imagine... Right before she took water from thin air to make her Ice Claws.

 

[SuperBower118]

Hama did mention that there's water in places you'd never even imagine... Right before she took water from thin air to make her Ice Claws.

It creates an entire CRYSTAL around people.... that's more than freezing a person.

 

[MeskenasBoii]

Hama did mention that there's water in places you'd never even imagine... Right before she took water from thin air to make her Ice Claws.

And you get only very tinsy teeny TINY bits of water. Not a effing 12 total GALLONS of water. If that was possible, she wouldn't be killing trees just to stand up in a fight against katara. Even the teenage water tribe girl would taken the opportunity to condense the invisible vapor, but she utilizing plant-sourcing as well.

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[xNuminousx]

Idk man... I tried... I'd say: "Well he had to freeze them some how" but he could have just used slowness....

 

[uvai]

Yes, it's a nice feature that adds depth to waterbending and requires skill to use it efficiently on land, also please remember that airblast is very different from surgejetting so the argument that it should work underwater doesn't really work here.

 

[xNuminousx]

Yes, it's a nice feature that adds depth to waterbending and requires skill to use it efficiently on land, also please remember that airblast is very different from surgejetting so the argument that it should work underwater doesn't really work here.

They actually work the same way... They both require a shift+click and they both blast the user far away. The only difference is that one requires sourcing.

And some of us want both Surge-jetting-on-land AND Airblast-jetting gone so I think it fits.

requires skill to use it efficiently on land

I wouldn't necessarily say that. Even when I was a novice waterbender years ago I could use it. Once you find out it exists, you're good to run away from anything.

 

[MeskenasBoii]

Yes, it's a nice feature that adds depth to waterbending and requires skill to use it efficiently on land, also please remember that airblast is very different from surgejetting so the argument that it should work underwater doesn't really work here.

*clears throat*
*puts Uvai impression hat*
"Yes, it's (aka self-airblast) a nice feature that adds depth to airbending and require skill to use it efficiently on land. also please remember that surgejetting is very different from airblast so the argument that it should work underwater doesn't really here."

^ Same context, twisted words ^. If you had put more elaborate explanation as to why you think they're different and what their difference makes the point for your agreed "Yes" vote , I would have taken comment seriously. For short, your comment is just sounds like "NO! SurgeJet should stay! It's different somehow, even thought my argument is vague, but...

"

 

[uvai]

*clears throat*
*puts Uvai impression hat*
"Yes, it's (aka self-airblast) a nice feature that adds depth to airbending and require skill to use it efficiently on land. also please remember that surgejetting is very different from airblast so the argument that it should work underwater doesn't really here."

^ Same context, twisted words ^. If you had put more elaborate explanation as to why you think they're different and what their difference makes the point for your agreed "Yes" vote , I would have taken comment seriously. For short, your comment is just sounds like "NO! SurgeJet should stay! It's different somehow, even thought my argument is vague, but...
"

Airblast: Sourceless mobility move, be easily controlled and chained, gives air the best mobility in the game.

Why it would be OP on water: It would increase air's godlike mobility, allowing them to be fast even on a place where another element should have the advantage, they could even use it to easily push waterbender out of water and/or make them die of fall damage.



Surgejet: Needs a source of water, harder to control, fewer movement options (only useful to travel diagonally or horizontally)

Why its not op on land: In a balanced arena, water sources in land aren't easy to find, and can easily be destroyed by other benders, making surge jetting pretty situational. Water arms is what actually makes water actually pretty decent on land, since, with just one source, it provides water with mobility 5 times better than surge's. Basically, surge jetting on land isn't very harmful to the game's balance.

Now, while surge jetting isn't canon or logical, PK is a minecraft plugin about a show where people have magical powers, it's fine to ignore logical rules and accuracy to show if it will result in better gameplay.

 

[xNuminousx]

it's fine to ignore logical rules and accuracy

Bending, although the basics are fictional, is based of off real physics and logic. Saying that we can ignore logic is wrong. That's why there's no Soundbending or Smokebending or Lightbending or anything else you can bend. Having all of these things would make the gameplay "better" and more fun, but it's illogical to the story line so we don't make it.

 

[MeskenasBoii]

Now, while surge jetting isn't canon or logical, PK is a minecraft plugin about a show where people have magical powers, it's fine to ignore logical rules and accuracy to show if it will result in better gameplay.

Logical is the worst term to use to describe to and what you're referring is "reality", eg. people who don't shoot fireballs and fly. Reality is irrelevant, because this plugin is dedicated/inspired by the FANTASY itself from ATLA/LOK tv show universe. That doesn't mean PK is not striving for accurance, and... (read below)

Pk is already focusing on accuracy and trying as best as they can on improving in that domain. Do you wonder why air doesn't have enoug damage like the other three bending arts? Because most of the airbenders were pacifists, and rarely minority and in certain cases had to be aggresive. Opposite same goes for fire: less defensive, because most were influence to start a war. That's were PK got ideas.

In a balanced arena, water sources in land aren't easy to find, and can easily be destroyed by other benders, making surge jetting pretty situational.

For me, that doesn't sound like a balance arena, If there happen to be a difficulty to find efficient amount of water sources for waterbenders to work with. Especally If the arena doesn't include enoug ponds/oceans/pool of water in it.

Water arms is what actually makes water actually pretty decent on land, since, with just one source, it provides water with mobility 5 times better than surge's.

Which is why there's no point to Self-SurgeJet. Water arms does the job, is easier and it is more accurate than the stupid unrealistic Surge. Although, that doesn't mean it's grapple mode 100% accurate (we were only show that it can only scale the user upwards horizontal surfaces/structures). That certaintly needs changing, but that's another topic for that other ability.

Basically, surge jetting on land isn't very harmful to the game's balance.

But it is harmful to the accurancy from the show, which I may remind you again, PK is already striving for.

Update: Edited out my derpy english.

 

[AndDrew]

Airblast: Sourceless mobility move, be easily controlled and chained, gives air the best mobility in the game.

Why it would be OP on water: It would increase air's godlike mobility, allowing them to be fast even on a place where another element should have the advantage, they could even use it to easily push waterbender out of water and/or make them die of fall damage.



Surgejet: Needs a source of water, harder to control, fewer movement options (only useful to travel diagonally or horizontally)

Why its not op on land: In a balanced arena, water sources in land aren't easy to find, and can easily be destroyed by other benders, making surge jetting pretty situational. Water arms is what actually makes water actually pretty decent on land, since, with just one source, it provides water with mobility 5 times better than surge's. Basically, surge jetting on land isn't very harmful to the game's balance.

Now, while surge jetting isn't canon or logical, PK is a minecraft plugin about a show where people have magical powers, it's fine to ignore logical rules and accuracy to show if it will result in better gameplay.

I agree with 100% of what you've said. Bending should be catered toward good gameplay mechanics rather than canon or not.

 

[MeskenasBoii]

Why it would be OP on water: It would increase air's godlike mobility, allowing them to be fast even on a place where another element should have the advantage, they could even use it to easily push waterbender out of water and/or make them die of fall damage.

gotta admint, you got me there. Did a bad comparison, lol. It's funny enough, that even waterbenders are faster littel cunts than chi blockers. Screw chi blockers, amirite? Might take me as bias due to my forum username, lol, but that's really stupid. Chi blockers shouldn't be damsels in distress. If I could count how many times can a waterbender easily run from a chi blocker within seconds.... .

 

[MeskenasBoii]

I agree with 100% of what you've said. Bending should be catered toward good gameplay mechanics rather than canon or not.

Though (magority of) addons do a good jump on catering for both parts. That's probably there goal.

 

[xNuminousx]

Bending should be catered toward good gameplay mechanics rather than canon or not.

And as I've said, it should be more about logic and realistic. It could be something that looks really good and works really well, but even then it could just ruin the style of everything that they strive for.

For instance, Soundbending for an airbender would be really cool, but logically it isn't possible. We don't deny Soundbending because it's not canon, it gets denied because it's not possible. Same for Smokebending, Lightbending, and so many others.

 

[SuperBower118]

I agree with 100% of what you've said. Bending should be catered toward good gameplay mechanics rather than canon or not.

It's not exactly (one of) thebest gameplay mechanic(s) when Waterbenders can outspeed a bender because one singular source that's on land that doesn't even have to be a water block.

 

[MeskenasBoii]

Anyone remember when you could shoot/shape water from a deadbush? xD It was funny tho.

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[uvai]

For me, that doesn't sound like a balance arena, If there happen to be a difficulty to find efficient amount of water sources for waterbenders to work with. Especally If the arena doesn't include enoug ponds/oceans/pool of water in it.

Which is why there's no point to Self-SurgeJet. Water arms does the job, is easier and it is more accurate than the stupid unrealistic Surge. Although, that doesn't mean it's grapple mode 100% accurate (we were only show that it can only scale the user upwards horizontal surfaces/structures). That certaintly needs changing, but that's another topic for that other ability.

But it is harmful to the accurancy from the show, which I may remind you again, PK is already striving for.
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1) I was talking about water sources on land

2) SurgeJetting is beneficial for the gameplay, while waterarms is not, gameplay is always a priority (in any game).

3) While it is harmful to the accuracy from the show, PK can and should make some few exceptions for mechanics like this one, of course, that's not saying that we should have soundbending and other weird elements

It's not exactly (one of) thebest gameplay mechanic(s) when Waterbenders can outspeed a bender because one singular source that's on land that doesn't even have to be a water block.

Isn't surge's push value configurable?

 

[MeskenasBoii]

1) I was talking about water sources on land

That applies for everything bendable. Water, plants, snow, ect.
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2) SurgeJetting is beneficial for the gameplay, while waterarms is not, gameplay is always a priority (in any game).

How come?

Also, are you condracting yourself now? Before that, you said this:

Water arms is what actually makes water actually pretty decent on land, since, with just one source, it provides water with mobility 5 times better than surge's.

So If waterarms is way 5 times better than surge, why do you want keep Self-SurgeJet around? Doesn't it become pointless than? As like you claimed: waterarms has an advantage in mobile way more than Surge. Why do want a carbon copy to be there.
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3) While it is harmful to the accuracy from the show, PK can and should make some few exceptions for mechanics like this one, of course, that's not saying that we should have soundbending and other weird elements

SurgeJet is weird. If Surge is "beneficial for the gameplay", why do you disagree on soundbending? Why not make an exception too?

 

[MeskenasBoii]

Honestly, waterarms grapple is too mobile and inacurate too. Instead of giving waterbenders to travel insanely fast around the horizontal surfaces (let's remove self-surge), give them only the option to monkey-climb vertical areas (by nerfing waterarms' grapple mode to pull on only walls/structures).