Fastswim Alternative

[HadesDude]

I fail to see how nerfing fast swim will even stop water camping. Sure, people can't go underwater. I'm sure they'd still have no difficulty escaping. Can't escape? Just freeze yourself to block some attacks.

 

[paliate]

I fail to see how nerfing fast swim will even stop water camping. Sure, people can't go underwater. I'm sure they'd still have no difficulty escaping. Can't escape? Just freeze yourself to block some attacks.

Because you're a biased source trying to save a broken ability.
It's not canon that you're able to prove, all you've been able to do is speculate.

 

[SuperBower118]

I fail to see how nerfing fast swim will even stop water camping. Sure, people can't go underwater. I'm sure they'd still have no difficulty escaping. Can't escape? Just freeze yourself to block some attacks.

It won't stop watercamping, but it'll stop waterbenders from dodging moves like crazy by tapping sneak on waterspout.

 

[HadesDude]

Because you're a biased source trying to save a broken ability.
It's not canon that you're able to prove, all you've been able to do is speculate.

I haven't played on a bending server in over a year, so I ultimately don't care what you guys do to ruin the plugin even further (Love you @OmniCypher and @Mist.) I'd also say that I've established that waterbenders are able to swim quickly as I've provided a basis. Regardless, I'm not here to fight with you... I just think that this would be pointless as it really doesn't stop people from watercamping or fleeing.

It won't stop watercamping, but it'll stop waterbenders from dodging moves like crazy by tapping sneak on waterspout.

People can still easily stop spouting, go below the water and then spout back up quickly or just surf around avoiding things. It's still going to be easy to avoid moves. Unless the Dev team decides that they're going to create a mod, there are going to be limitations to the game.

I'm not saying I think this is a bad suggestion, I like the idea and it would look cool. I just don't think it's going to affect watercamping like you guys seem to think it will.

 

[MeskenasBoii]

Nothing personal, but who did say that this is gonna discourage them to watercamp? I may have skip through a few recent pages and therefor I might have not notice that. IMO this tweak is all about stoping waterbenders to easily run off and hide in underwater depths, which the additional problem that other-bending art's abilities are nullified in water (pretty much what O.P. already stated).

"People can still easily stop spouting, go below the water and then spout, back up quixkly or just surf around avoiding thins". I agree on the most part. WaterSpout is really slow, like the speed when crouche-- no, its more like walking on footing but without sprinting ability. You wouldn't be able to run away much from the area to dodge attacks swiftly, so I believe 3 out of 4 attacks you'll get hit for sure. Yeah, you could surf, but that won't allow you to hide from stuff which is why this thread is all about. We aren't sure what speed devs will implant to it, so there's might be a chance for a slow one that might turn out to be even smaller than the current's ability.

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[HadesDude]

"People can still easily stop spouting, go below the water and then spout, back up quixkly or just surf around avoiding thins". I agree on the most part. WaterSpout is really slow, like the speed when crouche-- no, its more like walking on footing but without sprinting ability. You wouldn't be able to run away much from the area to dodge attacks swiftly, so I believe 3 out of 4 attacks you'll get hit for sure. Yeah, you could surf, but that won't allow you to hide from stuff which is why this thread is all about. We aren't sure what speed devs will implant to it, so there's might be a chance for a slow one that might turn out to be even smaller than the current's ability.

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If you're able to surf around, you're not going to have difficulty avoiding attacks. It would still be like fastswimming in a one block deep pool of water. As for hiding, if you really want to get underwater quickly to avoid attacks all you really need to do is waterspout up and drop yourself. You'll sink fast enough to be safe. Hiding and running away are still going to be easy to do.

As for speed, why would the devs make it slow? It's canon that waterbenders clearly have the ability to keep up with a speedboat. Waterspout's speed technically isn't even canon as it should be faster than it is.

 

[MeskenasBoii]

If you're able to surf around, you're not going to have difficulty avoiding attacks. It would still be like fastswimming in a one block deep pool of water. As for hiding, if you really want to get underwater quickly to avoid attacks all you really need to do is waterspout up and drop yourself. You'll sink fast enough to be safe. Hiding and running away are still going to be easy to do.

As for speed, why would the devs make it slow? It's canon that waterbenders clearly have the ability to keep up with a speedboat. Waterspout's speed technically isn't even canon as it should be faster than it is.

Highlighting this so I can give my response to that sentence: While you drop fast enough once you dissipate the spout with the left click (going down would be slow, efficient) the waterbender sooner or later will have come out of its pool shell because of the risk of drowning. And since that they won't be able to run off easily (thanks to this overall topic), they will have to put a waterbubble and that would put them to disadvantage of becoming an easy attack target. It puts the waterbender in a dilemma (to die in water or by a bender), in which all of the options won't reward the bender in any way.Of course you can argue with me that they can spam waterbubble back and forth, I'm gonna say that it is highly unlikely to happen. It would just be stupid: the light/view in water is dim, making it hard to see.

Maybe you're right, it isn't difficult, but at least it makes it some way a bit more possible to hurt the bender without your attacks vanishing by the unpenetrable water.

If you read my signature, you'll be told that canon isn't the only factor to approve something. Balance ~ is why a few people are so harsh about this fastswim, because they don't see that factor in it. While it may not have thte logic part, I think this passive is an exception to that criteria, because the ability is effing annoying and unfairly overused.

 

[SuperBower118]

I haven't played on a bending server in over a year, so I ultimately don't care what you guys do to ruin the plugin even further (Love you @OmniCypher and @Mist.) I'd also say that I've established that waterbenders are able to swim quickly as I've provided a basis. Regardless, I'm not here to fight with you... I just think that this would be pointless as it really doesn't stop people from watercamping or fleeing.



People can still easily stop spouting, go below the water and then spout back up quickly or just surf around avoiding things. It's still going to be easy to avoid moves. Unless the Dev team decides that they're going to create a mod, there are going to be limitations to the game.

I'm not saying I think this is a bad suggestion, I like the idea and it would look cool. I just don't think it's going to affect watercamping like you guys seem to think it will.

Well first off, this suggestion allows for people to actually hit the waterbender and they won't still keep fastswimming. I don't think you either A: Fully understand the thread, or B: Want to see the blatant facts that are given in this suggestion that would hinder fastswimming.

 

[HadesDude]

Well first off, this suggestion allows for people to actually hit the waterbender and they won't still keep fastswimming. I don't think you either A: Fully understand the thread, or B: Want to see the blatant facts that are given in this suggestion that would hinder fastswimming.

To use WaterSurfing, you'd select waterspout and jump onto water and hold down shift. Now you'd surf on top of the water. You wouldn't be able to go down or up, just like with airscooter. If you should get knocked off of it, you'd fall into the water. Now you'd have to either get on land to jump onto the water again, or just spout up and let yourself fall of your spout and shift. This means, you don't have to run. You only have to be falling to activate WaterSurfing.

You hit me, I sink a tiny bit and I easily spout back up, drop myself and continue surfing. It would be a very minor inconvenience.

 

[IceEyes]

You hit me, I sink a tiny bit and I easily spout back up, drop myself and continue surfing. It would be a very minor inconvenience.

In this case you can't run, if you're constantly under attack.

 

[HadesDude]

In this case you can't run, if you're constantly under attack.

But said attacks can't get you underwater. All you have to do is sink, thus stopping the attacks and quickly spout up and fall.

 

[MeskenasBoii]

You hit me, I sink a tiny bit and I easily spout back up, drop myself and continue surfing. It would be a very minor inconvenience.

At least I would be able to combust you in place without slipping my aim, raise a wall (if the pool isn't deep) so that you're not in contact with the water, airsuck you..., earthgrab you ect.

For me personally, the problem lies that I can't crystal cleary see them when they're under water. Pretty sure its not just me experiencing dim visibility for a player underwater. Hardly seen + too fast = impossible task to land a hit on the said person.

 

[MeskenasBoii]

Ok, I'll try to summarize this real quickly to get my/others points across

I just think that this would be pointless as it really doesn't stop people from watercamping or fleeing.

This isn't really trying to stop people from fleeing and watercamping away. We just want to stop waterbenders to flee away fast WHILE diving deep in the ocean/pool. It's troublesome to fight waterbenders that way, most non-waterbenders can reach there.

People can still easily stop spouting, go below the water and then spout back up quickly or just surf around avoiding things.

They can, but at least I will know where they are, as the opponent is practically are almost invisible underwater which is why it is difficult to catch them ever more. Above it - easy target.

If you're able to surf around, you're not going to have difficulty avoiding attacks.

You hit me, I sink a tiny bit and I easily spout back up, drop myself and continue surfing. It would be a very minor inconvenience.

But said attacks can't get you underwater. All you have to do is sink, thus stopping the attacks and quickly spout up and fall.

Surely I shouldn't be able to miss with charge fireblast, fireburst, earthsmash. Set up wall of fire infront of the waterbender and there is no other place for the WBender to go pass through (if they wish they can't go under, but it would slow them down by water and that is no good good - me: lightning pow pow!). Spouting also would slow him down, so he won't manage to go over the walloffire if I manage to hit him at the decent rate with no hesitation.

 

[SuperBower118]

You hit me, I sink a tiny bit and I easily spout back up, drop myself and continue surfing. It would be a very minor inconvenience.

You spout towards the ground, according to this. Either way, it stops you from continuing to go 100mph even though I hit you with a fireblast.

 

[MeskenasBoii]

You spout towards the ground, according to this. Either way, it stops you from continuing to go 100mph even though I hit you with a fireblast.

That makes sense and balances the ability pretty well. I just love how @HadesDude keeps pointing out that you can waterspout up and then dive, when infact that process makes you vulnerable to any attack as you're open to being attack while accending and dropping.

As for the Aang scene where he tries to reach out the lionturtle - that could be replaced with waterwave. It can be made so that it works in underwater by the devs, if it doesn't already. Giving a small boost technique I think should be fine with everybody who dislike SwiftSwim.