Denied Watermanipulation interactions

[MeskenasBoii]

Please put quotation marks on when your copy&pasting my responses

Q:"I don't think blasting surges from spout is canon, blasting slices from spout IS canon, shown in paku vs firenation, but I haven't seen surge please direct me to that one."
A: Kya is literally proof of that in your gif. When I say spout, I meant the WAVE feature (left click water, hold sneak than let go). I even clarified for you, via naming it ''waterspout-wave''.

"I mean, it really could be either one, what she did could be a charge or a deliberate hold which you can do with flow actually. She wouldn't really have needed to go high because her intended target was on the ground. It also more closely resembles Jedcore's waterflow."

To the bolded part: what's the point of having waterflow? If both to do the same. I'm more concern of the fact how in-game waterflow picks up people (lol, I sounded like from my rant of "Should Self-Surgejet work", except this one in reverse), because like I said: it's overexxagrated when it starts curving around AND picking people UP FROM THE GROUND.

Yes, while her target close on the ground, I still do not recall any instances of a waterbender would be FLYING, so to speak (as in waaaaayyyy high), in their waterflow/wave thing. Don't know how you see it resembling more (or less) like waterflow, or the very least its functionality. Waterspout doesn't count, because it's more of a vertical static hover/levitation thing that it simulates.

TBH, I don't really find WAVE and WaterFlow being that different from each other. Except that Jedcore's is OP and doesn't really add sense (again, there were no instances of lifting targets very way high up to the sky or more than 2 meters from the ground).

Honestly, we can argue about this suggestion, but I don't you can't counter my standpoint, because there we no waterbenders that use WaterFlow on others in the same way how it is demonstrated in the game. No waterbenders I know just tossed people around in the blue sky in canon means.

 

[xNuminousx]

Uh, this is LITERALLY waterflow in jedcore EXACTLY.

I rewatched that scene (since I own the series on my phone) and it's still more like WaterSpout. The way it wraps around her like the ring in the plugin, collects together toward the lower half of her body and then propels her. As for the splash she does on Zaheer in the end, that doesn't really resemble anything... You see, when Zaheer got splashed he remained stationary and generally (With waterflow, surge, torrent) the user is moved in some way, like knockback, or is dragged.

 

[MeskenasBoii]

As for the splash she does on Zaheer in the end, that doesn't really resemble anything... You see, when Zaheer got splashed he remained stationary and generally (What waterflow, surge, torrent) the user is moved in some way.

That's because he blocked with his air bending. Though, it isn't that bad to speculated that Kya might intented to deal knockback/damage, because... well... for one their fighting as their are mortal enemies. I think it would be great If we could transform our own waterspoutwave into any construct by selecting the respecting ability (surge, watermanipulation, torrent, ect).

 

[Madocean]

Please put quotation marks on when your copy&pasting my responses

Q:"I don't think blasting surges from spout is canon, blasting slices from spout IS canon, shown in paku vs firenation, but I haven't seen surge please direct me to that one."
A: Kya is literally proof of that in your gif. When I say spout, I meant the WAVE feature (left click water, hold sneak than let go). I even clarified for you, via naming it ''waterspout-wave''.
(Edit): She could just be initiating the combo. Again you can HOLD flow in, another feature it holds individual of wave. That I use ALL the time, very important in execution.
"I mean, it really could be either one, what she did could be a charge or a deliberate hold which you can do with flow actually. She wouldn't really have needed to go high because her intended target was on the ground. It also more closely resembles Jedcore's waterflow."

To the bolded part: what's the point of having waterflow? If both to do the same. I'm more concern of the fact how in-game waterflow picks up people (lol, I sounded like from my rant of "Should Self-Surgejet work", except this one in reverse), because like I said: it's overexxagrated when it starts curving around AND picking people UP FROM THE GROUND.
They DON'T do the same thing #_# They have very different purposes. It SHOULD pick people up, three of those gifs proved it to be canon.
Yes, while her target close on the ground, I still do not recall any instances of a waterbender would be FLYING, so to speak (as in waaaaayyyy high), in their waterflow/wave thing. Don't know how you see it resembling more (or less) like waterflow, or the very least its functionality. Waterspout doesn't count, because it's more of a vertical static hover/levitation thing that it simulates.
Again the flow would be attached to the source in the water it was in for this to be possible.
TBH, I don't really find WAVE and WaterFlow being that different from each other. Except that Jedcore's is OP and doesn't really add sense (again, there were no instances of lifting targets very way high up to the sky or more than 2 meters from the ground).
They're really different... Jed's is fixable. Yes there is, I'll show you more evidence .-.
Honestly, we can argue about this suggestion, but I don't you can't counter my standpoint, because there we no waterbenders that use WaterFlow on others in the same way how it is demonstrated in the game. No waterbenders I know just tossed people around in the blue sky in canon means.

A g a i n. Wave and flow are VERY different. I am a waterbender that uses flow to: Block attacks, move, set up combos and create structures influencing position. There's legit no way wave could do these things. Clearly I can counter your standpoint.

Spoiler: Bigass Link to that Evidence

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://images4.fanpop.com/image/polls/692000/692247_1303089698695_full.jpg?v=1303089725&imgrefurl=http://nl.fanpop.com/clubs/avatar-the-last-airbender/picks/show/692247/which-katara-vs-zuko-fight-like-better&docid=ZbsgtYtlFw7YZM&tbnid=PDErHpFCQ1DEPM:&vet=10ahUKEwjln9CgmvfTAhXIjVQKHQ0yCTsQMwg3KAkwCQ..i&w=720&h=480&hl=en-US&safe=strict&bih=653&biw=1024&q=katara vs zuko&ved=0ahUKEwjln9CgmvfTAhXIjVQKHQ0yCTsQMwg3KAkwCQ&iact=mrc&uact=8
Jeez that's a huge link.
Anyways, I'm sure you can guess what that was while she raised him Another counter to your arguement is IRL physics, which are much less drastic than these. Geysers can push people hundreds of feet in the air. (This includes those jetpacks)
It's very pheasible. Again you just need to be connected to the source.

 

[Madocean]

I rewatched that scene (since I own the series on my phone) and it's still more like WaterSpout. The way it wraps around her like the ring in the plugin, collects together toward the lower half of her body and then propels her. As for the splash she does on Zaheer in the end, that doesn't really resemble anything... You see, when Zaheer got splashed he remained stationary and generally (With waterflow, surge, torrent) the user is moved in some way, like knockback, or is dragged.

It more cloesely resembles flow, it carries her and she's able to get off. You can't do that with wave. You can with flow. The flow would've knocked him back FOR SURE. He had to one, block the attack partially and two dodge it.

That's because he blocked with his air bending. Though, it isn't that bad to speculated that Kya might intented to deal knockback/damage, because... well... for one their fighting as their are mortal enemies. I think it would be great If we could transform our own waterspoutwave into any construct by selecting the respecting ability (surge, watermanipulation, torrent, ect).

Yeah I love this idea actually. The way I'd see it working with flow however is you just right click and it stops carrying you to perform the function shown in Kya vs Zaheer. The freeze one shown in most of the other GIF's is already in play. The carrying thing again with KyavsZaheer is already in play. I don't know what I'm forgetting, you can question me on that.

 

[MeskenasBoii]

"It more cloesely resembles flow, it carries her and she's able to get off. You can't do that with wave. You can with flow. The flow would've knocked him back FOR SURE. He had to one, block the attack partially and two dodge it. "

So does/can WAVE carry her and able to get off from it. She only tried to knock him after she got of her wave, which can be describe as the "Water Continuity" concept which is right now lacking in the plugin. She looked like she was using waterwave, then decided to fire it, which left her booted out while it continue to travel and pick Zaheer without her on the 'passenger sit'

 

[MeskenasBoii]

A g a i n. Wave and flow are VERY different. I am a waterbender that uses flow to: Block attacks, move, set up combos and create structures influencing position. There's legit no way wave could do these things. Clearly I can counter your standpoint.

Very different in the g a m e ; p l u g i n. I'm talking about how it isn't in the show/cartoon. They're identical, except (but in the game) from being op that it carries to the sky limit and.... (omg I'm repeating myself). Those are my reasons why WaterFlow shouldn't be s t o c k.

 

[MeskenasBoii]

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgur...vfTAhXIjVQKHQ0yCTsQMwg3KAkwCQ&iact=mrc&uact=8
Jeez that's a huge link.
Anyways, I'm sure you can guess what that was while she raised him Another counter to your arguement is IRL physics, which are much less drastic than these. Geysers can push people hundreds of feet in the air. (This includes those jetpacks)
It's very pheasible. Again you just need to be connected to the source.

It's because you don't know how to copy it. Always right click the image and click "copy image address" (according to my rough translation.

That's waterflow. She only raised ice as a pillar. It's pretty much the same principle as like in the game, when you're trying to freeze your opponent but (s)he manages to time it right with their jump and they get raised.

Nevermind, wiki mentions it being snow, not ice. Nevertheless, you have yet to prove me wrong on my points, which I may *sigh* repeat:
1)Unlike waterflow, Katara only lifted him a FEW feet high with the colum, and that's not even close to what WaterFlow is capable of (*cough* send your opponents to the SKIES *cough*).
2)The Column didn't twist/twirl/curve/twine around, like a MISSILE.

Its physically possible to create the geyser, but the question: how powerful/skilled the waterbender to create such a strong and OP geyser. Like how creating Tsunami (which I can counter-argue that too is possible by physics, but not by a non-avatar waterbender) requires an AVATARSTATE level to be in, I guess the same goes for WATERFLOW.

 

[Madocean]

"It more cloesely resembles flow, it carries her and she's able to get off. You can't do that with wave. You can with flow. The flow would've knocked him back FOR SURE. He had to one, block the attack partially and two dodge it. "

So does/can WAVE carry her and able to get off from it. She only tried to knock him after she got of her wave, which can be describe as the "Water Continuity" concept which is right now lacking in the plugin. She looked like she was using waterwave, then decided to fire it, which left her booted out while it continue to travel and pick Zaheer without her on the 'passenger sit'

She literally uses the same flow in form, shape and all in the attack... She's attacking with the FLOW. I agree about continuity but this is clearly all the same move. She used the flow inputs, held it for good timing, initiate flow, rode over to him on it, and then got off to use f l o w as an attack.

Very different in the g a m e ; p l u g i n. I'm talking about how it isn't in the show/cartoon. They're identical, except (but in the game) from being op that it carries to the sky limit and.... (omg I'm repeating myself). Those are my reasons why WaterFlow shouldn't be s t o c k.

Ugh, there'll be a lot of repeating in this one. Flow can be used without carrying yourself. Wave can't. Flow can be used anywhere relative to the user's location practically, wave is restricted to pushing you from behind in a 3x2 3x3 figure.That is DRASTICALLY different. Your reasons are configurable. You still haven't really debunked the concepts. I think the reasoning for stock definitely outweighs the counters.

 

[xNuminousx]

She literally uses the same flow in form, shape and all in the attack

It looks just like the WaterWave though.... The way that the ring comes to her feet and propels her and she rides it like WaterWave... There are more features pointing towards WaterWave than not tbh.

You still haven't really debunked the concepts.

Other than it being over powered and unrealistic, what more do you want?

 

[xNuminousx]

Other than it being over powered and unrealistic

It would need a serious nerf IMO to be a stock ability.

 

[MeskenasBoii]

She literally uses the same flow in form, shape and all in the attack... She's attacking with the FLOW. I agree about continuity but this is clearly all the same move. She used the flow inputs, held it for good timing, initiate flow, rode over to him on it, and then got off to use f l o w as an attack.

Waterflow, wave, waterflow, wave, waterfl--- are we gonna argue over the look and the term for it? We might as well complain waterarms is/should be called water whips, because it isn't close due to its block-i-ness.

Ugh, there'll be a lot of repeating in this one. Flow can be used without carrying yourself. Wave can't. Flow can be used anywhere relative to the user's location practically, wave is restricted to pushing you from behind in a 3x2 3x3 figure.That is DRASTICALLY different. Your reasons are configurable. You still haven't really debunked the concepts. I think the reasoning for stock definitely outweighs the counters.

Again, you have terminology - I have mine. What Kya did in the gif isn't waterflow (from the jedcore), because she got off... or at least what it actually is, because she missed the opportunity to hit Zaheer, and like how @xNuminousx concluded - she failed, so we can't know she was about to do. Essentially, from half of the gif - I see her doing waterflow.

This argument is like arguing what did that person drank yesterday: coke or pepsi, without seeing what was the lable of the bottle that he drank from. I guess there no's point, because we both perceive it differently as such

All I'm saying waterflow shouldn't be stock ability. We have waterwave anyways, and you agreed that the gif she demonstrated should be recreated through by introducing "Water Continuity" to the plugin. No? Idk. I just don't like waterflow for the two pet-peeves I find it when it affects others, the user isn't my concern.

 

[Madocean]

"That's waterflow. She only raised ice as a pillar. It's pretty much the same principle as like in the game, when you're trying to freeze your opponent but (s)he manages to time it right with their jump and they get raised."

Right, but this proves that the water itself can reach that high, that it can support someone at that height and that it can further push them no less.

"Nevermind, wiki mentions it being snow, not ice. Nevertheless, you have yet to prove me wrong on my points, which I may *sigh* repeat:"
Snow is lighter than water, lol. Therefor the pushing effect would be greater with water.
1)Unlike waterflow, Katara only lifted him a FEW feet high with the colum, and that's not even close to what WaterFlow is capable of (*cough* send your opponents to the SKIES *cough*).
2)The Column didn't twist/twirl/curve/twine around, like a MISSILE."
You're talking about spout again... That does exist... Most water moves have spirals that twist around the moves themselves, which is an aesthetic bending currently lacks. Again it should all be configurable...

What I'm trying to get across is:
The points you make here simply don't NEED to be debunked although I have debunked them multiple times... What matters is that we have a functional concept. We can make everything completely configurable. That way the individual server owners can decide for themselves whether they want a certain feature. In doing this we don't alienate anyone and make it possible for the current functions to remain while making room for newer better ones.

Its physically possible to create the geyser, but the question: how powerful/skilled the waterbender to create such a strong and OP geyser. Like how creating Tsunami (which I can counter-argue that too is possible by physics, but not by a non-avatar waterbender) requires an AVATARSTATE level to be in, I guess the same goes for WATERFLOW.[/QUOTE]
I've shown that waterbenders can create structures that MASSIVE outside of the avatarstate, so it works just fine. Actually non-avatars can pretty easily create tsunamis... heres a gif of that.

Spoiler: Tsunami:)

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11130/111305092/5705691-1957651266-56946.gif

You can argue that they couldn't do this individually, but if you divide the wave into thirds, it's still a massive attack, SLIGHTLY bigger than current waterflow infact.

 

[xNuminousx]

You can argue that they couldn't do this individually, but if you divide the wave into thirds, it's still a massive attack, SLIGHTLY bigger than current waterflow infact.

Tsunami by 1 bender:

 

[MeskenasBoii]

I've shown that waterbenders can create structures that MASSIVE outside of the avatarstate, so it works just fine. Actually non-avatars can pretty easily create tsunamis... heres a gif of that.

Oh yeah, I forgot - the amount of benders is also the factor. I can bet one (average) waterbender alone can't pull that trick of. It's like having one vs three men pulling a medium loaded cart, which of course 3 people would be able to pull it easier.

Still, when I mean tsunami, I don't mean wave. It still isn't as closet as to what Kuruk pulled off:

^^^^ and THAT's what I consider a "tsunami". Compare this avatar to these three sissies

 

[xNuminousx]

 

[MeskenasBoii]

Tsunami by 1 bender:

Strong emotions are known to take benders bending out of control. Perhaps this is another factor why it gets buffed xD That's why it doesn't happen often for a standard-average skilled waterbender.

 

[xNuminousx]

Strong emotions are known to take benders bending out of control. Perhaps this is another factor why it gets buffed xD

we'll never know

 

[MeskenasBoii]

I've shown that waterbenders can create structures that MASSIVE outside of the avatarstate, so it works just fine. Actually non-avatars can pretty easily create tsunamis... heres a gif of that.

Spoiler: Tsunami:)

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11130/111305092/5705691-1957651266-56946.gif

You can argue that they couldn't do this individually, but if you divide the wave into thirds, it's still a massive attack, SLIGHTLY bigger than current waterflow infact.

TBH, I really doubt that there were only three waterbenders there. I think there might have been plently of them that weren't shown in that particular skinny gif. They just happened to be not there coincidentally. Though, don't take my words for granted, because I might just be bluffing since I don't recall that episode of how many waterbenders in that particular been there.

 

[Madocean]

It looks just like the WaterWave though.... The way that the ring comes to her feet and propels her and she rides it like WaterWave... There are more features pointing towards WaterWave than not tbh.


Other than it being over powered and unrealistic, what more do you want?

It's literally just a better version of waterwave... It's in no way overpowered and unrealistic .-. You VERY often talk about things that are C O N F I G U R A B L E as being overpowered. It depends on the config. Don't be dishonest.
ANDAGAIN it more closely resembles flow if you look at the buildup, its actually just getting closer, this perfectly displays current flow riding. She does the combo, brings the source to her, rides it, gets off, hits someone with it. This can currently BE DONE with flow, there's just no damage setting. It's overall more close to flow.

Waterflow, wave, waterflow, wave, waterfl--- are we gonna argue over the look and the term for it? We might as well complain waterarms is/should be called water whips, because it isn't close due to its block-i-ness.


Again, you have terminology - I have mine. What Kya did in the gif isn't waterflow (from the jedcore), because she got off... or at least what it actually is, because she missed the opportunity to hit Zaheer, and like how @xNuminousx concluded - she failed, so we can't know she was about to do. Essentially, from half of the gif - I see her doing waterflow.

This argument is like arguing what did that person drank yesterday: coke or pepsi, without seeing what was the lable of the bottle that he drank from. I guess there no's point, because we both perceive it differently as such

All I'm saying waterflow shouldn't be stock ability. We have waterwave anyways, and you agreed that the gif she demonstrated should be recreated through by introducing "Water Continuity" to the plugin. No? Idk. I just don't like waterflow for the two pet-peeves I find it when it affects others, the user isn't my concern.

I was about to go on a rant, however:
"This argument is like arguing what did that person drank yesterday: coke or pepsi, without seeing what was the lable of the bottle that he drank from. I guess there no's point, because we both perceive it differently as such" Yeah I agree here. That arguement is worthless.
"Again, you have terminology - I have mine. What Kya did in the gif isn't waterflow (from the jedcore), because she got off... or at least what it actually is, because she missed the opportunity to hit Zaheer, and like how @xNuminousx concluded - she failed, so we can't know she was about to do. Essentially, from half of the gif - I see her doing waterflow."
You actually summed up two big points of mine, that was very courteous actually. T h a n k y o u.

Oh to address this one-"All I'm saying waterflow shouldn't be stock ability. We have waterwave anyways, and you agreed that the gif she demonstrated should be recreated through by introducing "Water Continuity" to the plugin. No? Idk. I just don't like waterflow for the two pet-peeves I find it when it affects others, the user isn't my concern." Actually I heavily agree with this. It should just be configurable lol. On a lot of my servers people complain about how flow picks people up, it does infact ruin some combos for me. I see no reason not to make it configurable. You could either disable it altogether or change the level to which it carries players. I hope you'll agree that this one is a solid consensus.