Complete Waterbender's Source

JewFroJustin · Jan 29, 2015

owlcool said:
It got looking into before I even commented, And I was the only person with these complaints. I kinda think I have enough reason to post them here, Wynaut?

Just saying, you already posted what you thought about this. Why should you have to waste your time to continue posting on here?

owlcool · Jan 29, 2015

JewFroJustin said:
Just saying, you already posted what you thought about this. Why should you have to waste your time to continue posting on here?

JewFroJustin · Jan 29, 2015

owlcool said:

me: wonders why there is no dislike button...

EndersShadows · Jan 29, 2015

owlcool said:
Can a firebender use 15 fireblasts at once? No, the firebender can't. A waterbender and 2 firebenders in a spam contest between watermanipulation and fireblast would still have the waterbender winning, with the many watermanipulations breaking through the few fireblasts. Now this increases the rate of watermanipulation to a much higher amount, a amount that was only possible underwater, making it possible anywhere you are nearby water. How can anyone think this is not simply a thread made to make it easier to spam watermanipulation and icespike, I don't know. If this gets added, air and fire is going to need some spam boosts too. And who is to say that boosting the ability for waterbenders to spam watermanipulation is not going to create even more lag then usual? I guess we will just have to find out through testing this overpowered idea out.

1) Watermanip "spam" doesn't create lag.
2) You have utterly butchered my first point. I will get back to you on that
3) Air and fire have the best spam moves around, earth being next with water last.
4) Icespike is useless. Anyone who thinks spam from that is a problem, has to rethink for a minute.

1: Please give me a very valid argument on how watermanipulation can cause lag for a server. Compared to fire's moves, water pales in comparison to fire's lag generation.

2: The original point was this;

EndersShadows said:
This sentence, I would like to borrow someone's hand for a triple facepalm please. Is he implying that with only 10 plants, a waterbender can block 15 fireblasts?

Because you seem too daft to understand, I will explain it for you. A firebender attacks a waterbender on land. The waterbender having only 10 plants behind him uses those plants to defend instead of run. After using up all 10 plants, somehow... You are suggesting that a waterbender can still block fireblast spam after all plants have been used and are no longer available. Thus, leaving me to question your intelligence, and judgement.

3: "In what way is air and fire better at spamming than water." The fact that you don't have to turn around, select a source, and re-target your opponent should be a dead give away. Fire can spam fireblast + firekick along with a walloffire + firejet strategy. This simple tactic is a big focus on fireblast spamming. Waterbenders can only block the fireblasts with watermanip, not the firekicks or walloffires. Air beats fire in spamming just because they only have one damaging attack

4: Why the hell are you listing icespike spam as a problem. It does half a heart in the default. o3o

I would also like to point out that it's about time to get back on topic. We're here to talk about water's sources and not argue about how "Water can spam better than air or fire."

\/ This is my opinion on the matter if you missed it.

EndersShadows said:
This would definitely be extremely OP. Say what you want, but this would be a huge buff to water, and maybe not for the good.

Something someone suggested earlier in the thread that I really liked.. Was making this a combo. If you call it- say "Water feel" (Don't judge on name selection) This combo would allow waterbenders to use sources without looking for an extended period of time.

But this still is a very OP idea. Gotta think of ways to nerf it

owlcool · Jan 30, 2015

EndersShadows said:
1) Watermanip "spam" doesn't create lag.
2) You have utterly butchered my first point. I will get back to you on that
3) Air and fire have the best spam moves around, earth being next with water last.
4) Icespike is useless. Anyone who thinks spam from that is a problem, has to rethink for a minute.

1: Please give me a very valid argument on how watermanipulation can cause lag for a server. Compared to fire's moves, water pales in comparison to fire's lag generation.

2: The original point was this;

Because you seem too daft to understand, I will explain it for you. A firebender attacks a waterbender on land. The waterbender having only 10 plants behind him uses those plants to defend instead of run. After using up all 10 plants, somehow... You are suggesting that a waterbender can still block fireblast spam after all plants have been used and are no longer available. Thus, leaving me to question your intelligence, and judgement.

3: "In what way is air and fire better at spamming than water." The fact that you don't have to turn around, select a source, and re-target your opponent should be a dead give away. Fire can spam fireblast + firekick along with a walloffire + firejet strategy. This simple tactic is a big focus on fireblast spamming. Waterbenders can only block the fireblasts with watermanip, not the firekicks or walloffires. Air beats fire in spamming just because they only have one damaging attack

4: Why the hell are you listing icespike spam as a problem. It does half a heart in the default. o3o

I would also like to point out that it's about time to get back on topic. We're here to talk about water's sources and not argue about how "Water can spam better than air or fire."

\/ This is my opinion on the matter if you missed it.

2. When will a waterbender only have 10 plants? In a desert? Then WTF is a waterbender doing in a desert? And then again, water naturally spawns, so this creates many 4 by 4 pools of water for use of waterbenders, water can and will have a unlimited water source, being able to spam watermanipulation at the same rate as underwater without even having to be underwater is something else.
1. Lag being, The server itself would have to find a nearby water source, then switch over to finding out where the waterbender is clicking towards, Every time, for every waterbender.
4. Icespike applies slowness, and it would be a additional projectile more then fire has, this would also put a number on chiblockers if added, plenty of knockback when you don't have to select sources and you have multiple blasts flying through the air.
3. You can't switch targets right after using a fireblast, which is something that you can do with a lot of water moves. If you don't want a firebender to firejet and then use walloffire, simply use surge and blast them back, besides that should be easier when you have 5 watermanipulations at a time, and then again easier when you are submerged underwater, and then again easier when using octopusform. Or you could just use surge shield as ice. There are plenty of counters to these "Overpowered Offenses" of firebending.

EndersShadows · Jan 30, 2015

owlcool said:
2. When will a waterbender only have 10 plants? In a desert? Then WTF is a waterbender doing in a desert? And then again, water naturally spawns, so this creates many 4 by 4 pools of water for use of waterbenders, water can and will have a unlimited water source, being able to spam watermanipulation at the same rate as underwater without even having to be underwater is something else.
1. Lag being, The server itself would have to find a nearby water source, then switch over to finding out where the waterbender is clicking towards, Every time, for every waterbender.
4. Icespike applies slowness, and it would be a additional projectile more then fire has, this would also put a number on chiblockers if added, plenty of knockback when you don't have to select sources and you have multiple blasts flying through the air.
3. You can't switch targets right after using a fireblast, which is something that you can do with a lot of water moves. If you don't want a firebender to firejet and then use walloffire, simply use surge and blast them back, besides that should be easier when you have 5 watermanipulations at a time, and then again easier when you are submerged underwater, and then again easier when using octopusform. Or you could just use surge shield as ice. There are plenty of counters to these "Overpowered Offenses" of firebending.

Either you can't count, or someone taught you your numbers in the wrong order o-O

I'd like to point out that fire is the easiest element for me to fight as water. So please don't imply that I consider any part of fire OP. The slowness of icespike is hardly a problem compared to fire's burn damage. Last, you can switch targets with a fireblast. It's called moving your mouse. If you are referring to water's ability to redirect, that's still nothing compared to fireblast + firekick which is a constant 1.5-2 hearts every volley.

Having waterbender's sources be updated would probably effect fire the least. If anything this is more op to air and earthbenders.

owlcool · Jan 30, 2015

EndersShadows said:
Either you can't count, or someone taught you your numbers in the wrong order o-O

I'd like to point out that fire is the easiest element for me to fight as water. So please don't imply that I consider any part of fire OP. The slowness of icespike is hardly a problem compared to fire's burn damage. Last, you can switch targets with a fireblast. It's called moving your mouse. If you are referring to water's ability to redirect, that's still nothing compared to fireblast + firekick which is a constant 1.5-2 hearts every volley.

Having waterbender's sources be updated would probably effect fire the least. If anything this is more op to air and earthbenders.

Sigh, if you are going to have that much of a cheap shot then you might as well quit. I COULD have edited those points, but I was to lazy to put them from 1 to 5 like you have. Instead I tried to have some sense of organization and reply with your points responded in something other then a paragraph. If you are unable to keep a firebender away from you as a waterbender, when the waterbender has to be 1 block away, I am afraid I have lost all respect for your pvp skills. Firekick has knockback, fireblast has knockback, Simply walk backwards, or use surge, or walk backwards and use surge. Waterbenders on the other hand can do that same spam at long range.

EndersShadows · Jan 30, 2015

owlcool said:
Sigh, if you are going to have that much of a cheap shot then you might as well quit. I COULD have edited those points, but I was to lazy to put them from 1 to 5 like you have. Instead I tried to have some sense of organization and reply with your points responded in something other then a paragraph. If you are unable to keep a firebender away from you as a waterbender, when the waterbender has to be 1 block away, I am afraid I have lost all respect for your pvp skills. Firekick has knockback, fireblast has knockback, Simply walk backwards, or use surge, or walk backwards and use surge. Waterbenders on the other hand can do that same spam at long range.

m8 1v1 m3 farmvile snipes ony yew scrub

ILLFATE · Jan 30, 2015

owlcool said:
Sigh, if you are going to have that much of a cheap shot then you might as well quit. I COULD have edited those points, but I was to lazy to put them from 1 to 5 like you have. Instead I tried to have some sense of organization and reply with your points responded in something other then a paragraph. If you are unable to keep a firebender away from you as a waterbender, when the waterbender has to be 1 block away, I am afraid I have lost all respect for your pvp skills. Firekick has knockback, fireblast has knockback, Simply walk backwards, or use surge, or walk backwards and use surge. Waterbenders on the other hand can do that same spam at long range.

firebenders has a large arsenal of combat moves. its not only fireblast. try firejetting and put wall of fire in the enemy. does a pretty op amount of damage

owlcool · Jan 30, 2015

ILLFATE said:
firebenders has a large arsenal of combat moves. its not only fireblast. try firejetting and put wall of fire in the enemy. does a pretty op amount of damage

In which case a waterbender can counter it with their ice shield. You can't simply have fireblast charged, then walloffire right after without risk for getting into the fireblast explosion.

JewFroJustin · Jan 30, 2015

EndersShadows said:
But this still is a very OP idea. Gotta think of ways to nerf it

Idea #1: What if using torrent or octopus form dried out any sources smaller than 5x5 sources of water, and moves like surge and maybe water wave have a 50% chance of drying up pools of water that are no bigger than 5x5. Water Manipulation and Ice Spike would take up a 2x2 water source that would be replace in 0.5 seconds (if you can change how long it takes for water to flow), adding on to the cooldown for both moves by only 0.5 seconds. Water bending moves like torrent and surge would then be able to be redirected in order to keep a water bending fight going with only one pool of water.
Idea #2: Moves that include using shift to select a source would require you to hold shift to pick up the water source (like water control) and then it would follow your mouse. Depending on the move you are using, the source would be used in different ways.
For example: Hold shift at water source with your water manipulation slot selected, bring the water up to head level, aim at your target, click to fire the water.
Another example: Shifting while looking at water with surge selected would turn the source into a surge shield, and clicking would turn the shield into ice like normal. To use the wave part of surge you would just release shift and it would fire the shield forward.
Last example: Holding shift while looking at water with torrent selected would bring the source up to your head level automatically and water would circle around you, but other than the start-up for the move nothing would change for torrent and you would attack with it like normal.
Final words: I'm sure there would be many changes to moves if they went with Idea #2, and it might be hard to code. It would also go against the main idea of this forum, but it might help water benders to attack faster. It would also be in their best interest though to make water bending more fluid with these movements. Idea #1 would incorporate the "turning opponents offense into your defense" part of water bending which might also be well liked. These are my ideas for how to make water bending more fluid, while not being too OP.

owlcool · Jan 30, 2015

JewFroJustin said:
Idea #1: What if using torrent or octopus form dried out any sources smaller than 5x5 sources of water, and moves like surge and maybe water wave have a 50% chance of drying up pools of water that are no bigger than 5x5. Water Manipulation and Ice Spike would take up a 2x2 water source that would be replace in 0.5 seconds (if you can change how long it takes for water to flow), adding on to the cooldown for both moves by only 0.5 seconds. Water bending moves like torrent and surge would then be able to be redirected in order to keep a water bending fight going with only one pool of water.
Idea #2: Moves that include using shift to select a source would require you to hold shift to pick up the water source (like water control) and then it would follow your mouse. Depending on the move you are using, the source would be used in different ways.
For example: Hold shift at water source with your water manipulation slot selected, bring the water up to head level, aim at your target, click to fire the water.
Another example: Shifting while looking at water with surge selected would turn the source into a surge shield, and clicking would turn the shield into ice like normal. To use the wave part of surge you would just release shift and it would fire the shield forward.
Last example: Holding shift while looking at water with torrent selected would bring the source up to your head level automatically and water would circle around you, but other than the start-up for the move nothing would change for torrent and you would attack with it like normal.
Final words: I'm sure there would be many changes to moves if they went with Idea #2, and it might be hard to code. It would also go against the main idea of this forum, but it might help water benders to attack faster. It would also be in their best interest though to make water bending more fluid with these movements. Idea #1 would incorporate the "turning opponents offense into your defense" part of water bending which might also be well liked. These are my ideas for how to make water bending more fluid, while not being too OP.

Idea 1, watermanipulation would come back at the same rate as it usually does if it is in a pool of 4 by 4 water instead of the usual 1 by 1. I am to bored to read the rest of this post. .-.

Edit: So the second idea seems like a good idea, and it gets rid of the spam of watermanipulation easily overcoming firebender's fireblast on land, I support it.

Finn_Bueno_ · Jan 30, 2015

owlcool said:
Idea 1, watermanipulation would come back at the same rate as it usually does if it is in a pool of 4 by 4 water instead of the usual 1 by 1. I am to bored to read the rest of this post. .-.

Edit: So the second idea seems like a good idea, and it gets rid of the spam of watermanipulation easily overcoming firebender's fireblast on land, I support it.

it's a 2x2 pool or a 3x1 pool

owlcool · Jan 30, 2015

finnbon said:
it's a 2x2 pool or a 3x1 pool

Like I said, Extremely bored. Ima just look up legend of korra amv's, you ever do that?

owlcool · Jan 30, 2015

owlcool said:
Like I said, Extremely bored. Ima just look up legend of korra amv's, you ever do that?

Ooooh, this is a good one. Just found it.

ILLFATE · Jan 30, 2015

owlcool said:
In which case a waterbender can counter it with their ice shield. You can't simply have fireblast charged, then walloffire right after without risk for getting into the fireblast explosion.

Which takes skill. Charge fireblast and firejet to the WB

owlcool · Jan 30, 2015

ILLFATE said:
Which takes skill. Charge fireblast and firejet to the WB

And if the warmup to charge fireblast is slightly larger then usual then on most servers? Impossibrew, Meow.

ILLFATE · Jan 30, 2015

owlcool said:
And if the warmup to charge fireblast is slightly larger then usual then on most servers? Impossibrew, Meow.

still can warmup. both of you atleast cant attack.

owlcool · Jan 30, 2015

ILLFATE said:
still can warmup. both of you atleast cant attack.

Um, Could you rephrase that?

ILLFATE · Jan 30, 2015

owlcool said:
Um, Could you rephrase that?

both of you cant attack each other on that situation.