The Future of Project Korra

LeafHD_ · Jul 12, 2015

Chkirby said:
Correct, but the Project Korea staff, like Gangksta said should maintain their image everywhere not just within things that become offical. They have also shown on the forums to not be mature at all..

They are 90% of the time, if @jedk1 was still a staff member, i'd be a completely different story.

Finn_Bueno_ · Jul 12, 2015

Mist tries to stay out of it as much as possible. I recommend sending it to Vidcom, since he is the head moderator.
Also, what @LeafHD_ said is correct. Server stuff is not PK's problem. I was planning on coding the real old lightning ability, but then the person who asked me to (@Mysteriously Logical ), went flaming over the whole forums, and I decided they didnt deserver the ability. I made something to take them back instead. Again, I also fail to see how the ProjectKorra plugin has something to do with private server problems. If you want to solve it, feel free to send me a skype invite. I'd more than happy to talk this out. If it can be in a normal conversation.

Chkirby said:
Correct, but the Project Korea staff, like Gangksta said should maintain their image everywhere not just within things that become offical. They have also shown on the forums to not be mature at all..

I've made a mistake by coding that, my apologies, but I also think it wasn't a good thing to go over the PK forums and flame everywhere and blame us for thins we didn't do.

LeafHD_ · Jul 12, 2015

Finn_Bueno_ said:
Mist tries to stay out of it as much as possible. I recommend sending it to Vidcom, since he is the head moderator.
Also, what @LeafHD_ said is correct. Server stuff is not PK's problem. I was planning on coding the real old lightning ability, but then the person who asked me to (@Mysteriously Logical ), went flaming over the whole forums, and I decided they didnt deserver the ability. I made something to take them back instead. Again, I also fail to see how the ProjectKorra plugin has something to do with private server problems. If you want to solve it, feel free to send me a skype invite. I'd more than happy to talk this out. If it can be in a normal conversation.

I've made a mistake by coding that, my apologies, but I also think it wasn't a good thing to go over the PK forums and flame everywhere and blame us for thins we didn't do.

*wakes up* What, who? Is the drama gonna be over?

Finn_Bueno_ · Jul 12, 2015

LeafHD_ said:
*wakes up* What, who? Is the drama gonna be over?

I don't know, it was a moment of rage, lol.

Chkirby · Jul 12, 2015

Finn_Bueno_ said:
Mist tries to stay out of it as much as possible. I recommend sending it to Vidcom, since he is the head moderator.
Also, what @LeafHD_ said is correct. Server stuff is not PK's problem. I was planning on coding the real old lightning ability, but then the person who asked me to (@Mysteriously Logical ), went flaming over the whole forums, and I decided they didnt deserver the ability. I made something to take them back instead. Again, I also fail to see how the ProjectKorra plugin has something to do with private server problems. If you want to solve it, feel free to send me a skype invite. I'd more than happy to talk this out. If it can be in a normal conversation.

I've made a mistake by coding that, my apologies, but I also think it wasn't a good thing to go over the PK forums and flame everywhere and blame us for thins we didn't do.

One player does not decipher a whole server. You know this very well, also it is Project Korra responsibility to maintain their staff members from doing irrational things, especially if it is regarded against the community. I cannot speak for the person you claim went "flaming" on the forums but this was not necessary to involve other members of PK staff and try and destroy a server while advertising your own. I'm sorry I believe this was fully intentional and it directly involves the higher ups in staff.

Finn_Bueno_ · Jul 12, 2015

Chkirby said:
One player does not decipher a whole server. You know this very well, also it is Project Korra responsibility to maintain their staff members from doing irrational things, especially if it is regarded against the community. I cannot speak for the person you claim went "flaming" on the forums but this was not necessary to involve other members of PK staff and try and destroy a server while advertising your own. I'm sorry I believe this was fully intentional and it directly involves the higher ups in staff.

It really doesn't, is has been staed before that server problems has nothing to do with PK.

Chkirby · Jul 12, 2015

Finn_Bueno_ said:
It really doesn't, is has been staed before that server problems has nothing to do with PK.

This is not a server problem anymore. If a PK dev is representing the plugin he works for by intentionally sabotaging an "addon" by abusing the trust of his community members, it is the higher ups job to punish this person accordingly.

Sorin · Jul 12, 2015

gangksta said:
I'll attempt to reveal the recent shitstorm complete.

Whether PK staff recognizes it or not, PK has been heavily criticized ever since 1.7.0+ betas. Ignoring worthless comments shortens the scale of comments that bring opportunity down to about half, and you probably recognize that too. However, recently the criticism has become a lot more critical, simply due to the actions and attitudes of some specific members of PK's staff.

Connections between original communities and PK's have been complicated ever since it's existence. Project Korra has served the bending plugin itself brilliantly, and has brought a larger scene with it. The simple forums and the actual conversation with it's developers proved choice value, as the scene is not only kept alive but is witnessing growth.

After nearly four years.

Communication between original communities and PK, however, have generally been stagnant, and disregarded. This is due to faults on both sides. Beginning with the critics; Inflammatory and superficial comments don't work. Ever, really. The pent up frustration from the "competitive" bending scene has been showered with anger, and hostility. Understandably, I would personally agree that some decisions that PK has implemented and maintained are very poor.

Firstly, Orion struck a deal with logic with the simplicity of his system. Project Korra implemented that properly too, in some ways: the growth of community add-ons is absolutely incredible, and what I would say represents PK's greatest feature. However, for the plugin as a whole, the diversity of moves that come with the default package are a bit confusing. One of my largest problems with PK is that it allows more than 9 moves. Representing the oldest community (TLA), I can state with certainty that having to alter your play-style due to another person running a different load-out than yours depraves the flow that bending combat once had. The combos that PK brought were absolutely incredible, and I'm sad to see the lack of implementation by that method. The add-ons are absolutely fine, but if this plugin wanted to refine itself completely, there would have to be a maximum of 9 moves to allow not only equal opportunity in any situation but to also negate room for error (balancing), and any other unfair play-styles.

Secondly, communication and coordination between PK and it's entire community has been shallow. This well constructed website provides perfect means of solving any problems representing the officiality of PK. I don't really understand why that's such a hard case to prove. Means to balance have been cut short; From what many of the critics have seen, as well as myself, PK is essentially set in stone and we're open to comment on it. The fact of the matter is, attitudes such as http://projectkorra.com/forum/threads/lightning-isnt-working.3150/#post-42691 distill any honest connection between PK and it's community. As representatives of the PK community whole, I would honestly expect it's staff to operate as if it were a profession. The second you enter the website you're greeted with professionalism; why shouldn't the staff be held by those same standards? This problem was illustrated almost flawlessly by a recent complication between developer Finn_Bueno_ and members of several different servers (this was an original complaint that was sent to Mist);

"Hello Mist.

Recently, some players from my server posted on the forums about a change in
watermanipulation. It would be an understatement to say that things got a little out of hand. I know
that you're extremely busy with your life, and all of that, but I think what happened went way too
far and you should be alerted that your staff are doing this sort of stuff.
After the thing with watermanipulation, a player from my server messaged Finn_Bueno_ and
asked for them to code the old version of lightning. He did this, and Finn sent the lightning to me.
Right before I added it on my server, I was alerted by a player who worked with Finn to not install
it. I asked why, and he explained that Finn did not actually code lightning, but made an addon to
"destroy" my server. So, I decompiled the code and found that it was indeed true. After Finn sent
me the jar, a bunch of pk staff (and players from their servers) logged on so they could use it
when I added lightning.

In the "addon" he made it so it would deop and then ban me, while opping a bunch of other
people. He also made it so the wither and enderdragon would spawn. His intent was very
obviously malicious. (I will put the code of lightning.class below)
I'm messaging you this because I feel like you're the only one with the power to do anything. And
although some of my servers members may have been slightly rude at times on the forums, we
have done absolutely nothing to deserve this. Not to mention as a server owner myself, I make
sure my staff are mature. Trying to destroy a server through code is definitely not mature, and I'm
sure you wouldn't want them doing that. It's just awful behavior and sad to see 3 PK staff be in on
this together, as well as making members from their server help them. Having a person do this is
one thing, but PK staff is just another. I'm sure you agree that staff in any situation must be
mature, and never resort to completely sabotaging something because of anger or
miscommunication.

Links to proof:
The PK staff online: http://prntscr.com/7r063h
Finn sending the jar: http://prntscr.com/7rp73j, http://prntscr.com/7rp6y8, http://prntscr.com/7r05kk
Lightning.class: http://pastebin.com/uQaJwnQs
Screenshot of decompiled jar: http://prntscr.com/7r04y5
Finn persisting that I install the addon: http://prntscr.com/7r034z
This screenshot is the player (who I won't name) informing me about what Finn was going to do: http://prntscr.com/7rpddp

I'd really appreciate it, if at the very least you'd take a few minutes out of your busy schedule to
talk to them. I ask this because it isn't just because they targetted my server, but I would be
horrified if the staff on my server even thought about doing anything similar. Finn was (debatably)
abusing the trust he gets as a developer for PK to try to get me to install the addon.
Thank you for your time." - Anonymous Server Owner

The lack of professionalism is also cited in a certain player attempting to get this "add-on" to work. http://projectkorra.com/forum/threads/lightning-isnt-working.3150/ Rather than represent moral integrity, the two developers Finn_Bueno and AlexTheCoder decided that laughing at a users own server blow up in their face was more of a priority, after flaunting their "get out of jail free" pass. Absolutely NO respect or human decency for community members is absolutely reprehensible. Alex argued that it was Axes' fault in the matter. That's pretty sick. By abusing his trust as a PK official developer, you're essentially saying that you have the freedom to commit any crime as long as it doesn't effect the officiality of PK itself. You made that exceedingly clear; "Unless its officially PK, we technically don't have any rule to provide clean code". Is this really the type of behavior that PK insists on representing? Banning every player, while advertising their personal servers, after exploiting YOUR communities trust? The apathetic people on that of the argument side are staining this communities clean slate.

To conclude, I am not trying to exaggerate mistakes made in PK's beta stages,or make an ass of myself by insulting any staff members who's willingly spending his free time considering my request. I am not here to immediately dismiss a community member because I'm too insecure to ignore the names they call me, or because I only adhere to certain metas. I'm absolutely not here to attempt to split this community any farther - as far as I'm concerned, this is all we have. I'm here to try to establish the faults that hold PK's potential back, and state what initiatives need to be taken in order for this community to thrive.

I welcome and encourage critiques.

EDIT: I also thought it would be appropriate to share Finn's jar with you guys.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9Ny153zAINaR0RnQTEweXJ0ZzQ/view?usp=sharing
The advertising message is pretty clever.

You do realize uploading @Finn_Bueno_ 's jar file is illegal right?

Chkirby · Jul 12, 2015

Soarinsorin said:
You do realize uploading @Finn_Bueno_ 's jar file is illegal right?

What law is it breaking?

Sorin · Jul 12, 2015

Chkirby said:
This is not a server problem anymore. If a PK dev is representing the plugin he works for by intentionally sabotaging an "addon" by abusing the trust of his community members, it is the higher ups job to punish this person accordingly.

1. Who says he isn't being punished. 2. Pk has no support for "addons" 3. Where in your job description does it say you can tell the Pk staff members to punish someone. 4. The anonymous server owner really should have had a test server, and backups. 5. You siting here causing more problems and arguments is not helping the situation at all, what so ever. 6. What finn does out side of Pk "malicious" or not has nothing to do with his community standing's or Pk, (This server owner really shouldn't just trust things that are sent over the internet) and it is up to the Pk staff if he should be punished or not, they could say no if they wanted, even if it is requested he is to be punished.

Sorin · Jul 12, 2015

Chkirby said:
What law is it breaking?

It would be infringement of copyright, being there is no proof he ever said that he was able to upload it.

Chkirby · Jul 12, 2015

Soarinsorin said:
1. Who says he isn't being punished. 2. Pk has no support for "addons" 3. Where in your job description does it say you can tell the Pk staff members to punish someone. 4. The anonymous server owner really should have had a test server, and backups. 5. You siting here causing more problems and arguments is not helping the situation at all, what so ever. 6. What finn does out side of Pk "malicious" or not has nothing to do with his community standing's or Pk, (This server owner really shouldn't just trust things that are sent over the internet) and it is up to the Pk staff if he should be punished or not, they could say no if they wanted, even if it is requested he is to be punished.

I never once told any higher up PK staff member what to do. And I believe the post states that the "addon" was looked at. Also, my intention is not to cause more arguments but to state points. It would also be nice to trust a developer for PK and I think everyone agrees.

Sorin · Jul 12, 2015

Chkirby said:
I never once told any higher up PK staff member what to do. And I believe the post states that the "addon" was looked at. Also, my intention is not to cause more arguments but to state points. It would also be nice to trust a developer for PK and I think everyone agrees.

It may be nice to "trust" but what finn did has nothing to do with pk(I personally found what happened was hilarious as fuck). He is a pk dev, not a saint, and anyone who blatantly throws trust into a person over the INTERNET just because that person is a dev for a plugin used on their server, is honestly just stupid.

Chkirby · Jul 12, 2015

Soarinsorin said:
It would be infringement of copyright, being there is no proof he ever said that he was able to upload it.

Soarinsorin said:
It may be nice to "trust" but what finn did has nothing to do with pk(I personally found what happened was hilarious as fuck). He is a pk dev, not a saint, and anyone who blatantly throws trust into a person over the INTERNET just because that person is a dev for a plugin used on their server, is honestly just stupid.

I think it's honestly stupid that you find this a laughing matter when it is clearly a serious matter. Finn is a dev for PK and did something against the community of PK even if it was a small part this involves PK and it's reputation as a whole. Just because this is the Internet, as you clearly stated, does not really change anything in the matter.

Sorin · Jul 12, 2015

Chkirby said:
I think it's honestly stupid that you find this a laughing matter when it is clearly a serious matter. Finn is a dev for PK and did something against the community of PK even if it was a small part this involves PK and it's reputation as a whole. Just because this is the Internet, as you clearly stated, does not really change anything in the matter.

How exactly is it against the community of pk? And the internet changes everything, you don't really now a person over the internet, so how would you trust them? And People trusting someone because of a title are beyond stupid. What you are basicly saying is that just because you work at a gas station and you steal from walmart, it should somehow effect the gas station because the person works there.

Chkirby · Jul 12, 2015

Soarinsorin said:
How exactly is it against the community of pk? And the internet changes everything, you don't really now a person over the internet, so how would you trust them? And People trusting someone because of a title are beyond stupid. What you are basicly saying is that just because you work at a gas station and you steal from walmart, it should somehow effect the gas station because the person works there.

A more appropriate comparison too real life would be the government. You don't know the government personally or in real life but you trust they will make decisions to better your life. The fact that finn became a staff member for PK means he has to represent the image at all times professionally and it is the jobs of the higher ups to keep this on check. So yes, title does really matter here.

jacklin213 · Jul 12, 2015

Well to anyone that does see this I apologize on behalf of the whole ProjectKorra team for the rash decisions/actions cause by our staff team. To those who have problems against us I am open to all constructive criticism. We will try and continue to make ProjectKorra better.

As for the situation that happened a few days ago, we will be reviewing the whole situation and consequences will most likely happen

Signed
Jacklin213

Sorin · Jul 12, 2015

Chkirby said:
A more appropriate comparison too real life would be the government. You don't know the government personally or in real life but you trust they will make decisions to better your life. The fact that finn became a staff member for PK means he has to represent the image at all times professionally and it is the jobs of the higher ups to keep this on check. So yes, title does really matter here.

My point still stands, you are just trying to make pk look bad for something they had nothing to do with, like at all, it was finn alone, not the whole pk community or staff team, so for you to sit here and try to target pk for something that happened out side of pk, makes you look irrational, rude, and opinionated. So do us all a favor, get a grip, and realize the what finn did isn't pk's fault and/or problem, the pk staff team can decide if they want to make punishments or not, and they should have to sit hear and deal with annoying repetitive comments. So please take your blame finger, and shove it up your ass <3

Chkirby · Jul 12, 2015

Soarinsorin said:
My point still stands, you are just trying to make pk look bad for something they had nothing to do with, like at all, it was finn alone, not the whole pk community or staff team, so for you to sit here and try to target pk for something that happened out side of pk, makes you look irrational, rude, and opinionated. So do us all a favor, get a grip, and realize the what finn did isn't pk's fault and/or problem, the pk staff team can decide if they want to make punishments or not, and they should have to sit hear and deal with annoying repetitive comments. So please take your blame finger, and shove it up your ass <3

There is no need too be rude. I haven't said one rude comment or said anything to offend/hurt anyone. Finn was not the only staff member involved in this crisis and I am not "pointing fingers" at PK. I am saying it is there responsibility to keep this is check and I believe there are some very rational and good members in PK, but I am addressing the actions of a few. I am also very calm and have a very good "grip". So please can we have a discussion without having to be rude and or offensive?

LeafHD_ · Jul 12, 2015

Ok can we end it here now?