xNuminousx
Verified Member
Reworded version: We will begin deliberation starting this weekend and will have our top entries listed publicly as soon as we can get them out.
Just be vague guys... It's honestly your best bet.
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Announcing the first ProjectKorra Community Contest - Win up to $20
- Thread starter Mist
- Start date
Just be vague guys... It's honestly your best bet.
boiii he said hopefully
xNuminousx
Verified Member
Unfortunately he had to include the "hopefully." People are still going to look forward to the time he says, which is why I say he vague.
Try to stick with what he says. We are still human here at PK
Loony might be an alien tho
xNuminousx
Verified Member
I do try to stick with what he says, but sadly it's not too credible anymore.
And I understand you guys human. No one is asking you to do something humans can't handle. I'm giving you solutions that are more beneficial to everyone, and have been for a while.
And I understand you guys human. No one is asking you to do something humans can't handle. I'm giving you solutions that are more beneficial to everyone, and have been for a while.
Ok, firstly, since when is Sunday Night/Monday Morning not the end of the weekend?
Secondly, @xNuminousx seriously, what is with you knit picking and reading between the lines of everything I say. We do events like these to improve community moral and give people opportunities to get involved. We don't need or want people sitting there with a stopwatch waiting to point out a failure based on when they think something should be done. I don't know about you guys but I just woke up, apparently, I need to be on your schedule to make sure I do my job correctly. I speak for everyone here at ProjectKorra when I say all the work we do is because we find it fun and enjoyable but I doubt you even have any understanding of how much comments like the ones you make degrade that passion. I have great news regarding the contest that the team was super excited to share and now it is just completely overshadowed by the negative light you decided to cast over this event because you were being impatient. Thanks for being "diligent" but no thanks.
Now that is out of the way, the results!
We began deliberation on Friday shortly after the contest ended, we looked over all the source code for each addon as well as how they performed in-game. Two other anonymous developers and I spent a day doing that and individually came to a decision about the creativity and execution score for each addon. After that, we spent a great deal of time in a skype call discussing/debating the scores we gave each addon as well as writing a decent amount for each entry's author in order to offer them constructive criticism/praise and give reasoning behind each score we gave. We tallied up our individual and total scores and actually ended up with a tie between two potential winners. Congratulations to @Loony and @Brainwave!
One entry had mediocre creativity scores but very high execution scores while the other had mediocre execution scores but very high creativity scores. In order to come to a conclusion we will be turning to you, the ProjectKorra community. to vote in a winner takes all tie breaker! Expect a post outlining all our deliberation as well as a download for each of the two entries so that you can try them yourselves and offer feedback to the creators. I would try to offer more of a specific timeline for when that post should be going up but I feel that if I do I'll run into more issues later on, sorry.
Secondly, @xNuminousx seriously, what is with you knit picking and reading between the lines of everything I say. We do events like these to improve community moral and give people opportunities to get involved. We don't need or want people sitting there with a stopwatch waiting to point out a failure based on when they think something should be done. I don't know about you guys but I just woke up, apparently, I need to be on your schedule to make sure I do my job correctly. I speak for everyone here at ProjectKorra when I say all the work we do is because we find it fun and enjoyable but I doubt you even have any understanding of how much comments like the ones you make degrade that passion. I have great news regarding the contest that the team was super excited to share and now it is just completely overshadowed by the negative light you decided to cast over this event because you were being impatient. Thanks for being "diligent" but no thanks.
Now that is out of the way, the results!
We began deliberation on Friday shortly after the contest ended, we looked over all the source code for each addon as well as how they performed in-game. Two other anonymous developers and I spent a day doing that and individually came to a decision about the creativity and execution score for each addon. After that, we spent a great deal of time in a skype call discussing/debating the scores we gave each addon as well as writing a decent amount for each entry's author in order to offer them constructive criticism/praise and give reasoning behind each score we gave. We tallied up our individual and total scores and actually ended up with a tie between two potential winners. Congratulations to @Loony and @Brainwave!
One entry had mediocre creativity scores but very high execution scores while the other had mediocre execution scores but very high creativity scores. In order to come to a conclusion we will be turning to you, the ProjectKorra community. to vote in a winner takes all tie breaker! Expect a post outlining all our deliberation as well as a download for each of the two entries so that you can try them yourselves and offer feedback to the creators. I would try to offer more of a specific timeline for when that post should be going up but I feel that if I do I'll run into more issues later on, sorry.
MeskenasBoii
Verified Member
Congrats.
xNuminousx
Verified Member
Monday is really the beginning of the week rather than the end of the weekend tbh...
It wasn't in between the lines... You literally said it.... Here you go:
After several suggestions and much debating... But let's forget about that. You did do something really great, I'm proud of you. Sorry I held you accountable for something you said.
Then don't tell us when we should expect failure? If you took my advice you never would have said "this weekend" and no one would have ever been let down.
I'm not waiting to point out failures. When people commit, I expect them to live up to that. We've been over the "time management" issues SEVERAL times as a COMMUNITY and the general consensus (correct me if I'm wrong) is that you guys should be vague. I'm making my point that telling people when to expect things isn't doing anyone any good. Yea, you got it out Monday, the day after the weekend. I'm glad you guys are getting closer to the deadlines you PUBLICLY say. Yea, this was a great idea. Yea, you did say "hopefully". But you STILL say "this weekend" which is when people will expect to see this. Yea in THIS scenario, 1 day late may not be much. But in the past it's been WEEKS late and probably longer (can't think of any "months" scenarios off the top of my head). I'm not making JUST THIS a big deal, I'm bringing light to a larger issue that's been happening for a while. God forbid I call anyone out!
You set the "schedule" yourself.
And I hope you do have fun. However, you are running a public community. I'm sure there are lots of things you would have done to have fun, but you couldn't because it was for the community. Heck, let's add Soundbending. That sounds fun! No, it's not for the plugin. And I don't speak from my own personal opinion when I say that, I speak from the past debates about it. I'm glad you find it enjoyable. I'm sorry that me calling out the wrongs makes everything so miserable for you.
Oh trust me, I understand. But I also understand how to take criticism and learn from my mistakes. None of this should have been taken personally. The idea that this is late (Because the expectation was over the weekend and now it is no longer the weekend) brings back the argument that you guys need to be vague. I don't understand why I must keep stressing this. If I just let this go, without an argument, who knows what would have happened. You could have said "1.9 core will be out late May everybody!" And what happens then when you don't live up to that? Should I just keep quiet because it's all in good fun? Or should I then speak out, again, because you didn't take my advice, again?
Really the only thing that's making this too negative is your first paragraph (That you included with the good news, making it not so much good news). I do actually see that this is making something great negative and I'm tempted to just send it PM. However, this is a public matter so another part of me says to keep it public to see how many other people call me "annoying" and "overdramatic." Trust me, I've heard it all.
Impatient? I made it clear from the beginning this probably wouldn't be all too exciting. I wasn't "eager" to hear the results or anything. I tried to show my support for everyone and even encouraged people to try it out. Guess calling a minor issue out makes me impatient?
Hey dude, criticism is criticism....
Congrats guys! I've seen @Loony 's move, which is really awesome and really well thought out, and I look forward to hearing about @Brainwave !
Perfect, vague execution. Love the improvement!
It's passive aggressive but it's hilarious xD
Anyways, to sum it all up. Guys, I really do love this community. It has many flaws and I hate that you all take this so personally. Yes, it's for your enjoyment, but you have a community of several members that can easily become unhappy. I call you out on the smallest of issues to attempt to prevent that from happening. Yea, it ends up in heated debates but there are never any hard feelings towards the end (At least not on my end, who knows everyone here could hate me lmao). If I was out to get you, or hurt anyones feelings I could use some pretty harsh words. But I don't, so I'm not. The time management and the way you inform the community has to be worked with, it's been discussed several times in the passed. We've tried to have debates about this but, as we've seen today, they weren't very effective and people are still getting hurt when they are getting called out. Yes, this plugin and this project as a whole may be very near to your hearts. But for people like Mesk and I, who spend hours on the forums each day, it's also close to ours. We care for the plugin, the forums, the project, and the community. Maybe not in the same way all of you do, because you guys MADE it while we just attempt to improve it, but I like to think we all care about it equally (just in different ways). I ask you guys to not take things so personally. In the past I've seen some things taken personally that never should have been, thus creating some very heated tension between people. I think we ALL (including myself) should learn to take criticism and learn to respond in the most respectful way as possible, and learn from EACH OTHER how we can ALL help this community towards greatness.
And seriously, congrats to the tied winners of this contest. Everyone who participated in this event is truly talented and I can't wait to see what you have in the future for us. I apologize if my "diligent" attitude has ruined your opinion on this event, that was never my intention.
Learn from everyone, love everyone, and take criticism and turn it into a compliment!
(PS: Never ended up sending this in PM because of the whole "I LOVE YOU" thing earlier. Oopsies, I got a bit emotional).
xNuminousx
Verified Member
Your loss
MeskenasBoii
Verified Member
It happens, ya know? He might read it the next day.
To be honest, why would a developer, who DOESN'T GET PAID, continue working on the plugin when all everyone does is complain?
Yes, we didn't deliver on time. Yes, we all have actual lives that take priority over this. Yes, things don't always go as intended.
But to be always shat on when you give up so much of your time is kinda hard, y'know. We're people too. We aren't your slaves. People who are treated as such won't work, and I'm sure that'll make you happy.
Edit: I hate to be so negative but it's true. Also, congrats to @Loony and @Brainwave!
Yes, we didn't deliver on time. Yes, we all have actual lives that take priority over this. Yes, things don't always go as intended.
But to be always shat on when you give up so much of your time is kinda hard, y'know. We're people too. We aren't your slaves. People who are treated as such won't work, and I'm sure that'll make you happy.
Edit: I hate to be so negative but it's true. Also, congrats to @Loony and @Brainwave!
xNuminousx
Verified Member
You act like being vague when announcing things is such a chore....
Tbh, it is a chore when all everyone does is complain lol
xNuminousx
Verified Member
But anyways.... :/ Must people still take things so personally....
Please stop taking stuff so personally guys, and like I said:
You confuse criticism with complaining yet again... I've spent several years working on stuff even when not everybody liked it, why? Because I enjoyed it. I hope your enthusiasm for what you do is strong enough to over shadow the criticism. We give so much criticism because there's are so many areas that need working. We point it out, as is our purpose. One of your purposes is to fix/create things.
I've said it several times, take my advice and then you won't have to worry about getting things out on time. Take my advice and you won't have me nagging at your behinds. I'm giving you an easy way out yet you guys keep coming back saying I'm "complaining" and making everything miserable....
I'm not gonna be rude here so I'll put it simple: It's criticism, it happens when you work with the public. It's reality. Welcome.
I'm not forcing you to do anything... What your doing is called a non-profit service. No one forcing you to do anything. If I don't like something about, for example, EarthBlast. I'm gonna make a post explaining what I think is wrong and how I think you can change it. Is that really so wrong? You really take that as "Shat"-ing on your hard work? I see improvement, I suggest the improvement. That's my duty as a community member, to make sure everything is going okay. I suggest new things, I suggest improvements, and I debate (Often).
Yes because me wasting hours of my time staying active on the forums and helping this community stay alive really shows that it'd make me HAPPY that no one is doing work... Yes... Exactly.... #Sarcasm
The "complaining" you speak of (Which is criticism) is caused by flaws. People give you solution to the flaws, then you call us complainers and pull the "we're human" card.... Dude no one is sending you to your room yelling "You're grounded" All it is, is "Hey, I see this flaw here's how you can fix it" and then you take it and turn it into "Fix this immediately, the world will end if you don't." No, that's not how it's like.
Please stop taking stuff so personally guys, and like I said:
@xNuminousx You say it's just criticism. But it doesn't matter what you are calling it because in the end, that "criticism" is making people want to quit and not work for PK anymore.
I'm not talking about suggestions. Suggestions are suggestions, and we are greatful that you guys continue giving us things to improve on. But no, what I'm talking about is the backlash from releases. We're all aware that we didn't release on time, and we are trying to fix that. But I'm saying that it's got to the point that everyone has been degraded enough into not wanting to do anything, so furthering the rain of assault on us in that department isn't needed. I think I speak for lots of developers as well.
Take it how you will but it is what it is. You did say you guys wanted updates on how things are going. So there's a small one for you lol
I'm not talking about suggestions. Suggestions are suggestions, and we are greatful that you guys continue giving us things to improve on. But no, what I'm talking about is the backlash from releases. We're all aware that we didn't release on time, and we are trying to fix that. But I'm saying that it's got to the point that everyone has been degraded enough into not wanting to do anything, so furthering the rain of assault on us in that department isn't needed. I think I speak for lots of developers as well.
Take it how you will but it is what it is. You did say you guys wanted updates on how things are going. So there's a small one for you lol
xNuminousx
Verified Member
Hey dude, honestly what can I do, right? I'm just a plain old member. In the past, every aspect of this community has been painted in how it should be ran. It's all on the staff on whether they take that advice or not. Stuff have been denied (no, not the labeling sense, the actually "ignore" kind of denied) and things weren't handled right. People became upset and voiced their opinions. You guys took it all personal when all I see is "It could have all been avoided if everyone just calmed down and listened." I understand a utopia community is not reality for us, even if all the suggestions were accepted. But I don't blame the community members, or myself, for why people aren't wanting to work for Pk. I would be surprised if a few people (Out of the probably thousands who enjoy the plugin) were able to make everyone just hate their jobs. I've said this for a while and I'll say it again, I think this community has been handled poorly. If you wanna know why there've been so many "complaints" or "critiques" or what ever you wanna call it, I say look at the beginning. I highly doubt that some criticism is the reason people are gonna start quitting Pk. Maybe let's blame their lives? You guys are always saying how everybody has a life outside of Pk. Maybe their lives just got more interesting that working here. Maybe they just got burnt out on their duties. Blaming it all on the few community members who are actually active, is a little harsh. No one is saying that Pk sucks (Except for that one ATLA supporter from like a year ago), no one is telling you guys you are crapy. You get several compliments and praises when you guys release new material. Everyone here loves and appreciates the work you guys are doing. You are the ones taking criticism and turning into hate towards you and the plugin. I have full confidence that every one here loves and appreciates all the work you're doing for them.
Loony
Verified Member
Let me just step in real quick. I agree with some of the points of both sides.
The community has always complained and they often just contradict each other. They complained when we gave no schedule and they complain when we give a schedule that they demanded but we can't keep it, which is why we didn't give a schedule in the first place. Everytime we've tried to do a schedule for the community, one way or another it hasn't worked but I think certain people need to be aware of their tone. Omni said, "we all do this for fun" - I don't, I do it entirely for the community and for myself, because I love bending and this plugin so much. With that being said, I think people of the community need to realise that they aren't in any position to start demanding and shouting at anyone when this is voluntary work. That isn't to say that we need to cut corners or treat the project unprofessionally, because we still should be taking this seriously due to the community we have to provide for. It does mean however, that we do not deserve to be 'attacked' if you will about something that's inevitable. I doubt we're every going to be able to keep a schedule when we don't have staff on a payroll or when we have staff that are all in education and have other responsibilities to do.
I can tell you right now that I know that developers will be less motivated if you continue with this hostile attitude. There's a way to say things rather than just being extremely negative about it and what you need to realise is that the administrators and head developer is the ones you need to bring your concerns to, in a polite manner. Not shit-talk the entire team when it's out of their power. The developers do this work, and you crack your whip and say it's not fast enough? You sound entitled.
Now on the opposing side, things could be a lot smoother and a lot of frustration could be avoided. Although there are some with a bad attitude, I'm not surprised because it's earned after over a year of making the same damn simple mistakes. It isn't necessary to stick to a schedule but the lack of information is terrible. A simple update post saying "Our next beta is going to take quite a while because we're working on XYZ" would do this community wonders and it takes about 5 minutes to make. Rather than leaving the community in the dark to guess what's going on and then wondering why there's such a bad taste in their mouth? I mean, we haven't even announced that we're no longer sticking to the three week schedule or anything about that so people could still be waiting for a release that's not going to come?
All this is down to the administraitors and nothin can be done unless they want it to be. I think staff also need to be reminded that just because it's volunteer, we still have a responsibility to our community.
Quite frankly, I stopped waiting for things in PK to change because I've come to he conclusion that it won't.
The community has always complained and they often just contradict each other. They complained when we gave no schedule and they complain when we give a schedule that they demanded but we can't keep it, which is why we didn't give a schedule in the first place. Everytime we've tried to do a schedule for the community, one way or another it hasn't worked but I think certain people need to be aware of their tone. Omni said, "we all do this for fun" - I don't, I do it entirely for the community and for myself, because I love bending and this plugin so much. With that being said, I think people of the community need to realise that they aren't in any position to start demanding and shouting at anyone when this is voluntary work. That isn't to say that we need to cut corners or treat the project unprofessionally, because we still should be taking this seriously due to the community we have to provide for. It does mean however, that we do not deserve to be 'attacked' if you will about something that's inevitable. I doubt we're every going to be able to keep a schedule when we don't have staff on a payroll or when we have staff that are all in education and have other responsibilities to do.
I can tell you right now that I know that developers will be less motivated if you continue with this hostile attitude. There's a way to say things rather than just being extremely negative about it and what you need to realise is that the administrators and head developer is the ones you need to bring your concerns to, in a polite manner. Not shit-talk the entire team when it's out of their power. The developers do this work, and you crack your whip and say it's not fast enough? You sound entitled.
Now on the opposing side, things could be a lot smoother and a lot of frustration could be avoided. Although there are some with a bad attitude, I'm not surprised because it's earned after over a year of making the same damn simple mistakes. It isn't necessary to stick to a schedule but the lack of information is terrible. A simple update post saying "Our next beta is going to take quite a while because we're working on XYZ" would do this community wonders and it takes about 5 minutes to make. Rather than leaving the community in the dark to guess what's going on and then wondering why there's such a bad taste in their mouth? I mean, we haven't even announced that we're no longer sticking to the three week schedule or anything about that so people could still be waiting for a release that's not going to come?
All this is down to the administraitors and nothin can be done unless they want it to be. I think staff also need to be reminded that just because it's volunteer, we still have a responsibility to our community.
Quite frankly, I stopped waiting for things in PK to change because I've come to he conclusion that it won't.
xNuminousx
Verified Member
I'm not going chronologically because this really got to me. I never told them they need to hurry up or they were too slow or anything. The only thing I've ever done is bring up when people (mostly Omni) aren't sticking to what they told people. In this situation, he was a day late. I know, not a big deal. However it'd been a big deal in the past and the fact the "same damn mistakes" are being made AGAIN is why I brought this to light. Sorry it had to be negative.
Yea, and as a community (which means like 3-4 of the active people here unfortunately) we generally decided it'd be best to just be vague. But like you said, it'd up to the administration. Guess the word hasn't gotten around.
Other than my suggestions which are, for the majority, supported by logical thinking, I've only held people accountable for what they've said. I wasn't demanding he get this finished on the weekend. He said it'd (yes "hopefully") be finished on the weeked, and when I came and it wasn't here I was like "Again... ;3;" So I made it known: "Hey uhh... Did ya forget? We still here bruh" That's what it feels like when deadlines peeps set aren't met. If feels like you're forgetting about us. And forgetfulness shows lack of care in what you do (I'm aware how much you care).
Just be vague man... Go with the flow ~~~~
Yea, it's hostile. But it's also true. I offered the solution, now the administration just has to accept it. BOOM, hostility gone. And the reason that I'm not letting it go is because I genuinely see not better option. I could let it go, keep my mouth shut, but then how long will it be before people start getting upset? How long before a new "me" arises to point you out on everything your doing wrong? Just accept the solution, send the people who disagree with it to me.
We've tried peaceful before man. Not very effective. Of course this may not be effective either, people seem to just be taking it far too personally IMO. Tell me, what is the best mode of presenting solutions and suggestions? If it's peaceful, people tend to ignore and move on. If it's aggressive, people tend to take it personal and get angry.... How do I help you guys see the real issue here without starting a new one?
Got bring this back... I'm sorry but it's just not true... I find the "whip" part most triggering....
Then they will be their own undoing and let thousands of people down.
Loony
Verified Member
Except what you're saying affects the entirety of the staff team because of the choices of three people, that's what you need to remember.