Debate: Should Self-SurgeJet work on Land?

[uvai]

How come?

With just one source, waterarms gives a waterbender enough mobility to out maneuver any element but air, on land.

SurgeJet is weird. If Surge is "beneficial for the gameplay", why do you disagree on soundbending? Why not make an exception too?

Because I don't see how soundbending would be beneficial for the gameplay.

 

[MeskenasBoii]

With just one source, waterarms gives a waterbender enough mobility to out maneuver any element but air, on land.

You mean self-surgejet is "balanced" than grapple? Ahh I see. Had hard time understanding you, because I thought you meant it having an upper-hand when you mention "benefitial gameplay".

I don't like waterarms, but neither do I like surge jet. It just give user insanely quick and unnecessary mobility. They have waterwave (aka. waterspout with 'left click + sneak + sneak up' feature) for that. If waterbenders wanted to travel, they would use that. Why do need to fly at the speed of light? Doesn't make sense. I would understand If they were standing in their-favor enviroment, such as in snow biome or big water sea, which I why I'm not against that. If they don't how to sprint/run like a normal person, that's their problem. It would be just like giving an earthbender ability to soar through the air with earthsmash without requiring to suffer chargetme.

Because I don't see how soundbending would be beneficial for the gameplay.

Again, hard time understanding you. Sorry... might you rephrase that I don't like soundbending, but... it can be an exception like you said. Why not incorperate it? (Just using hypothesis as an argument)

 

[NickC1211]

Honestly, waterarms grapple is too mobile and inacurate too. Instead of giving waterbenders to travel insanely fast around the horizontal surfaces (let's remove self-surge), give them only the option to monkey-climb vertical areas (by nerfing waterarms' grapple mode to pull on only walls/structures).

I think it should be one or the other you can't just nerf waters transportation methods completely. And don't say we still have waterwave because it's not that good

 

[SuperBower118]

1) I was talking about water sources on land

2) SurgeJetting is beneficial for the gameplay, while waterarms is not, gameplay is always a priority (in any game).

3) While it is harmful to the accuracy from the show, PK can and should make some few exceptions for mechanics like this one, of course, that's not saying that we should have soundbending and other weird elements




Isn't surge's push value configurable?

SurgeJetting is beneficial how? While it takes more skill than WaterArms, that's not saying much. Both effectively fling you from point A to point B. If anything, it's more or less beneficial for the Waterbender. It's not exactly beneficial for gameplay, because it's not as if it provides much counterplay to it, if it brings any at all.

This talks about counter play with great detail in a short amount of time, and in designing Multiplayer Competitive games, you should make sure that such important features have some counter play to it.

And why should PK make an expection for SurgeJet. I'm not saying to remove it and give water absolutely nothing in return, but SurgeJetting shouldn't just get a pass.

 

[MeskenasBoii]

I think it should be one or the other you can't just nerf waters transportation methods completely. And don't say we still have waterwave because it's not that good

You're right. All mobility for all elements should progressively or simultaneously be nerfed. Airbenders shouldn't be touching sky limit, earthbenders should have maneuverability taken away from 'em, firebenders [...?].

And why do people don't like canon things? Canon usually balance things out. Especally with what each bending art should be represent (in a fighting style). If not, we would be having firebenders with many defense in the arsenal, while earth's catapult becomes airblasts. Canon is a guideline, not a strict rule. I'm using guideline to make them realistic as possible.

 

[NickC1211]

You're right. All mobility for all elements should progressively or simultaneously be nerfed. Airbenders shouldn't be touching sky limit, earthbenders should have maneuverability taken away from 'em, firebenders [...?].

And why do people don't like canon things? Canon usually balance things out. Especally with what each bending art should be represent (in a fighting style). If not, we would be having firebenders with many defense in the arsenal, while earth's catapult becomes airblasts. Canon is a guideline, not a strict rule. I'm using guideline to make them realistic as possible.

If we really want to do something we can make waterwave an actual method of on land transportation rather than a small boost. Then once we have that feel free to nerf surge jet and water arms

 

[xNuminousx]

If we really want to do something we can make waterwave an actual method of on land transportation rather than a small boost. Then once we have that feel free to nerf surge jet and water arms

Honestly, plantbending needs to be reworked. It may be "useful" but it doesn't do the shown justice at all. Creating oceans of water from a rose, making tsunamis from a couple blades of grasss, and even forming spheres of ice from a tulip.... How should any of this be allowed in a plugin that's supposed to follow the most basic of Newton Laws...

 

[MeskenasBoii]

If we really want to do something we can make waterwave an actual method of on land transportation rather than a small boost. Then once we have that feel free to nerf surge jet and water arms

I would actually agree with that. That's canon alright! Though it's more to do with IceWave combo than waterwave.

 

[xNuminousx]

I would actually agree with that. That's canon alright! Though it's more to do with IceWave combo than waterwave.

I'm not sure how this would fix anything... By "On land" I'm sure he means plants, which means still taking more water from plants than they actually have.

I think a couple changes could take place to better help water on land. For 1, there needs to be less "water disappearing" If you don't have bottles all of the water moves you shot just disappear. Instead, they could fall to the ground as little puddles, the smallest size of water source as you can have sit stationary would be nice. Then with any water move that requires shifting, it will check for any source of water puddles to make the move. For instance, you fight someone with Water Manipulation on land using the local plant life. Instead of the blasts disappearing, they fall the the ground in small puddles. Then, when you're low on health, you need to make your escape. You hold shift using Water Spout and it then starts to extract the water from 3-4 of the near by puddles.

Another way would be plants. Just like the puddles, each move requires a certain amount of plants near by to work. I have no doubt this has been suggested before but I'll mention it anyways. When using a water move when plants are your only source, you'll need a certain amount of plant sources near by for it to work at all. Water manipulation would require 1 source, water spout Wave would require 3-4 sources, torrent would require 3-4 sources, etc. And then for ice moves, they must first he extracted from the plant as water and then VISIBLY turn into the ice move used. For example, when you shift+click using Ice Spike (which would require 1 source), it first comes out as water than we see it turn into ice on probably the 3-4 from of the animation.

Just some thoughts to debate about.

 

[MeskenasBoii]

Noice. ^ You should save that for another thread.

 

[xNuminousx]

Noice. ^ You should save that for another thread.

Someone can always make it if they got inspired lol. I'm on my phone right now so I'll only be responding.

 

[SuperBower118]

rather than a small boost.

it's more than a small boost when you spam grapple but ok

 

[xNuminousx]

it's more than a small boost when you spam grapple but ok

He was talking about water wave

 

[MeskenasBoii]

I would actually agree with that. That's canon alright! Though it's more to do with IceWave combo than waterwave.

Forget what I said. I mistakenly it with icewave. Even thought, it's a continuing push rather a quick boost, and the only difference was the distance it sent the user skiing away. (Katara during Sozin's Comet, running away from the choo-choo Azula)

 

[xNuminousx]

Anytime I've said "instead of having disappearing water, it should fall to the ground and turn into a puddle that can be used as a water source" this is what I meant:


Idk if that's possible, but a thin puddle of water. The picture shows one, but if there were 2 others near it, they could possibly be combined to form a torrent or a surge.

 

[MeskenasBoii]

He was talking about water wave

The Concept doesn't change thought. Waterwave isn't a small boost. It's a continous stream of slide.
i
Some suggested about puddles. They should of course limited of times appearing after an attack/technique. I thing randomization would be a nice thing to balance it.

 

[xNuminousx]

Some suggested about puddles. They should of course limited of times appearing after an attack/technique. I thing randomization would be a nice thing to balance it.

The balancing comes where you need multiple puddles to execute some moves that require more water. And with the addition of puddles, I think (if they did this) they should take this time to add Multiple-Plant-Sourcing just like the puddles. But eh, it's up to them. Don't wanna start demanding again :/

 

[MeskenasBoii]

I got you covered

 

[Hero]

@Hero @SuperBower118 @xNuminousx I invite you to join this party!

I literally don't care anymore. I understand people trying to be as close as the show presented bending but somethings are just not for change. I prefer to be blasted at 50 MPH from a rose thank you very much.

 

[xNuminousx]

I literally don't care anymore. I understand people trying to be as close as the show presented bending but somethings are just not for change. I prefer to be blasted at 50 MPH from a rose thank you very much.

Because it's to your advantage and makes things easier for yourself... Personally I say keep it until they give water more land capabilities.