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MeskenasBoii

Verified Member
Feel free to elaborate.
Changed my mind a little and I just thought may you're right afterall. I may create a new thread by creating this thread and expanding this ability more with my own or existing ideas for a few other techniques.

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Switch

Verified Member
Awesome idea and all, but my only worry would be the control and the accuracy of the move. If water blade/slash were to be a move then would the blade part of it be vertical or horizontal, the problem being with a vertical move would be the accuracy of it. My idea ( from what has been explained ) of the move, it would be a shifting source move like octopus form or torrent where the user sources from a block ( or bottle ) but this timer on the move and the cool down you guys have been speaking of makes the move rendered useless, as an opponent will easily be able to dodge or evade the slice if it were vertical. This also poses the problem of the moves animation, I'm guessing it would put some strain on one's server if an animation of the blade would be "spinning" and potentially growing larger.
As my alternative the move could have attributes similar to torrent and air swipe where the user sources the block directly and a small ring on water forms around the users feet ( like octopus form but smaller ) and the user is able to click in a specified direction where the water "swipe" would travel to. This would be better because there is not as much need for perfect accuracy and the range doesn't have to be as wide. Yes this doesn't follow the look of the water blade in the game, but the accuracy point of it will make the move a lot easier to use. If a vertical style were used the move could look something like a slight diagonal blade of water where the user isn't granted as much control but can still land a god hit on the opponent. So ... point to consider:
- Whether the blade will be, vertical, horizontal or potentially at a slight diagonal
- The animations of the move
- The effects given ( potion effects / damage ) depending on distance
- The speed of the move, how far it travels and how fast depending on whether it is vertical or horizontal
 

MeskenasBoii

Verified Member
If giving it diagonal shape, then for sure this water construct/weapon will have to be made out of particles. Otherwise, it would be totally ugly, therefor - particles.
 

Tarrloq

Verified Member
Awesome idea and all, but my only worry would be the control and the accuracy of the move. If water blade/slash were to be a move then would the blade part of it be vertical or horizontal, the problem being with a vertical move would be the accuracy of it. My idea ( from what has been explained ) of the move, it would be a shifting source move like octopus form or torrent where the user sources from a block ( or bottle ) but this timer on the move and the cool down you guys have been speaking of makes the move rendered useless, as an opponent will easily be able to dodge or evade the slice if it were vertical. This also poses the problem of the moves animation, I'm guessing it would put some strain on one's server if an animation of the blade would be "spinning" and potentially growing larger.
As my alternative the move could have attributes similar to torrent and air swipe where the user sources the block directly and a small ring on water forms around the users feet ( like octopus form but smaller ) and the user is able to click in a specified direction where the water "swipe" would travel to. This would be better because there is not as much need for perfect accuracy and the range doesn't have to be as wide. Yes this doesn't follow the look of the water blade in the game, but the accuracy point of it will make the move a lot easier to use. If a vertical style were used the move could look something like a slight diagonal blade of water where the user isn't granted as much control but can still land a god hit on the opponent. So ... point to consider:
- Whether the blade will be, vertical, horizontal or potentially at a slight diagonal
- The animations of the move
- The effects given ( potion effects / damage ) depending on distance
- The speed of the move, how far it travels and how fast depending on whether it is vertical or horizontal
Thank you very much for your feedback.
 

MeskenasBoii

Verified Member
Welp... re-read it and I can for once agree with SuperBower xD. Even with the cutting concept, nothing new and very situational. Now, if someone can confirm, can you hit multiple targets with torrent and at the nearest spot? I can recall there was a config setting as a variable for how many players you can hit, but I never tested that addition of the ability.

Anyway I think torrent blast could go change position into vertical via sneaking (like this ability), AND with the addition of able to move around it vertically. Correct me if I'm wrong, but If you tried to move your cursor upwards, you can move it up and down but it won't change its position to vertically, only bend the middle of i it a little bit. It would also be swift if torrent could destroy blocks where the tip of it comes into contact. ~~~

Sorry that I went off-topic, but I think the details of this waterblade would fit nicely to torrent. @SuperBower118 is right about it, it doesn't add diversity.
  • Half an heart aspect can also be mimicked to another ability, like torrent or watermanipulation, by changing their damage value in config.
  • It inflicting slowness as an additional devasting attack can be easily be done by using icespike/iceblast.
  • Attacking multiple entities at once is already covered by torrent blast. Applying the 1# and 3# (shooting icespike afterwards as a combination) to torrent blast would make it an "waterblade" in absolute form, minus the look of it.
Now those who say "oh but people want different ways to do x", well then, how about we demand the devs to create: 9 variations of watermanipulation, 3 Surges, 8 IceSpikes - all of these looking different. Oh and one more thing - 15 phasechanges, with 7 of them freezing water in different sizes, the 2 freezing the water AND launching icespikes with one ability making smaller and the other humongous (let's call them PhaseChangeDaggers and FreezingBiggerSpikes), and the rest variations just freezing water in different shapes and inflicting effects that can be done by existing abilities.

Look at it this way. Would you like it if devs created 11 variation of this WaterBlade ability in a ability form, with each having different shapes, and attributes that apply the same existing stuff in other abilities. Like for instance - a pentagram shape water start that pushes players like Surge and creates icespike along it wakes if comes contact with ice surfaces (Icespike reference) and another ability that makes 5 blocks high and 2 width water wall that acts like the Torrent ability, reshaping it into circular wave and have it blast-freeze people and heals people if shifted. Ask yourself how usefull would this abilities be? Want me the give the rest 9 ability examples?

PK doesn't go around creating an abilities based of how differently it looks shape/texture/aesthetic wise. It just gives unnecessary work for devs, to have them waste time of something that isn't really needed. I know this cool looking, but what's the point of having it besides the looks. It instead just delays them of creating something that is REALLY needed, what alot of people have asked for and what concept designers themselves liked and approved of it.

Not to mention, you're just making it alot harder for the server to load because of the unnecessary moves that are in big numbers, as well making it annoying to scroll through the gigantic /b d [element] list because on how big it covers up the chat (I want to see the servers who have big earth ability list with the useless installed addons getting shut down).
 

MeskenasBoii

Verified Member
Might as well quoted all the replies I see that are wotth of time, cause I have nothing else to do lol...

I think it does tbh the more moves we have the more individuality benders have which is realistic. If all benders in the show bent the same moves in the exact same way it'd be pretty boring. Plus water is the element of change and versatility meaning different ways of doing everything.
Even though, I pretty much covered why its inefficient to make the same moves, I'm gonna point out that anyone can makes custom ability easily thanks for pk giving that supportive capability. If you find something dislike, but wanna make a duplicate of existing move(s), you can do by watching tutorals and asking help for developers or request them to create the ability for you. Simple as that
It adds diversity, you may see it as oh well we already have a way to do this we don't need another. Well if the developers thought like that we wouldn't have waterwave because we have fast swim or we wouldn't have water arms grapple because we have waterwave. So what's wrong with having different ways to do things it's not like it's hurting you in any way. Plus like I said gives ppl a chance to individualize their binds as opposed to every water bender having the exact same moves.
First off, surge wasn't intented to be for mobility. It's more the creator of it forgot or didn't think about that surge will allow the user to jet around and still thought it was a fun so he decide to leave it as it is (by my speculation). Second, Surge is more than jetting around - you can push and/or freeze your enemies), and create a telekinetic movable shield, which is what makes this ability as it has different features to stand as a honorable ability. Third, Surge jetting and waterwaving are completely different mobile abilities and they transport the players different. I'm how and why they're are different, as that would be for another talk.

what would be new then ? we forget bending and return to swords and axes ? PK is suppossed to recreate bending fights like in the series not just attacking someone with the same move again and again.
If that's the case then we should remove all fire moves and keep fire burst, because they all do the same thing, burn the ground and the target. nothing new to the table if you ask me. XD lol



like @NickC1211 said, it adds diversity to the game.
You're nitpicking small details without looking into a big picture. They DO ALL SORTS OF different things. Fireblast - quick attack, WallOfFire is AOE, Firejet transports you, FireBurst - 360 degree attack, Combustion can be shot from big distance, blaze - less harmful; only harms those who are standing on the ground near you, Lightning fries "fishes", FireShield - temporal quick shield - also can protect the user from all sides. Gonna repeat once more - WaterBlade is nothing more that torrent with a small damage input and a combination of an iceblast effect (slowness)

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MeskenasBoii

Verified Member
By that similar logic, Most waterbending moves are just moving water towards an attacker, either immobilizing them, damaging them or both. So we should not suggest more moves that do damage?
Can't argue with that (surge and torrent both freezing). Althought, with IceWave it is € combined form - you just waterwave and then freeze at the same time. Waterbending is lacking of continuity (e.g. torrent a torrent and switching to form a surge shield without reselecting the source), and the team wanted to start somewhere. I think IceWave can go pass through as an exception for that. I also wanna point why does waterblade has to do deal slowness to the targets? Why should it slow down your opponents?

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Hero

Verified Member
Expect here's the thing
With Offensive Move 1, 2, and 3, they all do the same thing: do damage. So all you really need to do is just do the minimal requirement (I'll use JedCore's air addons for this example) which is just left click (here it's shift + left click. Oh wow, such a big difference). The fights will boil down to who can dodge the best because all you do is just move around and spam moves 1, 2, and 3 because they're all separate moves and they all have different, but small cooldowns. WaterBlade isn't any different, and I can hardly consider it a new move: it's just a addon y move that does damage, and apparently had a bleeding feature. (Bleeding will probably never get implemented if you had to ask me because that's just not how PK rolls). To boil it down, moves that just do generic things such as dealing damage or shielding honestly shouldn't be added or even considered because like I said, they don't bring anything new to the table.
Funny how you mention that considering that is how firebeing is built. Considering I play as a waterbender, I do believe with some changes that this should be allowed. "The fights will boil down to who can dodge the best..." That is how firebenders play. Fireblast and Fireburst are almost exactly the same-the latter being bigger. Firejet at one point had three different versions of itself and they were very similar in function with the exception being aesthetics and one extra thing about them.
 

MeskenasBoii

Verified Member
Firblast and Fireburst both have pros and cons that makes a valid for them to exist. For instance, with fireblast you can charge and grief stuff with it, and light up a furnace without a fuel: but with fireburst you can hit multiple people, safely battle without doing enviromental damage and nulify some bending attacks.
 

SuperBower118

Verified Member
Funny how you mention that considering that is how firebeing is built. Considering I play as a waterbender, I do believe with some changes that this should be allowed. "The fights will boil down to who can dodge the best..." That is how firebenders play. Fireblast and Fireburst are almost exactly the same-the latter being bigger. Firejet at one point had three different versions of itself and they were very similar in function with the exception being aesthetics and one extra thing about them.
Looks like things are gonna be fun now that you're back

Despite fire having some moves that do the same thing, there are some points to be brought up.
First of all, it's fire. Fire hurts, so obviously FireBlast and Fireburst would A: Leave Fire, and B: Hurt. I can equally say that IceSpike and IceBlast are the same, and to an extent, Torrent is just a watermanip that can go further and hit multiple times since it does damage. FireBurst has it's differences and it's uses, just like torrent and watermanip both have their uses.

Second of all, Firebending fights don't all boil down to just dodging. To an extent, all fights can boil down to dodging, because obviously you don't want to get hit. But firebending fights mainly just consist on who can go between fighting mid-range to long-range with fire's options. We switch between those a lot.

Third of all (wow it's been a while since I've made it to point 3), it's true that Firejet has.... two variations of it. Don't know where you got three from. But what I find hilarious is that Fire needs JetBlast and Blaze more than ever. I can agree that it's stupid to have two jetcombos that do what jet does, but better, but Firebending, especially at night, needs those extra jets. The reason being as for those aren't so stupidly weak at night. FireJet normally at night is ludicrously slow, and it's easy to abuse firebenders on the jet. With JetBlast, firebenders actually have a viable jet to use. JetBlaze was a welcome addition because it allowed for some interesting attack strategies with it. That and you could decide what type of range you'd want to use between the two amplified jets.
 

MeskenasBoii

Verified Member
First of all, it's fire. Fire hurts, so obviously FireBlast and Fireburst would A: Leave Fire, and B: Hurt. I can equally say that IceSpike and IceBlast are the same, and to an extent, Torrent is just a watermanip that can go further and hit multiple times since it does damage. FireBurst has it's differences and it's uses, just like torrent and watermanip both have their uses.
IMO, IceBlast and IceSpike could go into one bind, as one ability. But even leaving them seperate, wouldn't that be a stupid thing, because I have yet to find difference from each other? Icespike has 2 additional techniques, so its unique on its own. Iceblast? Lag doesn't count, as it was made unintentionally by the the staff and that's what makes it cheap.
Third of all (wow it's been a while since I've made it to point 3), it's true that Firejet has.... two variations of it. Don't know where you got three from. But what I find hilarious is that Fire needs JetBlast and Blaze more than ever. I can agree that it's stupid to have two jetcombos that do what jet does, but better, but Firebending, especially at night, needs those extra jets. The reason being as for those aren't so stupidly weak at night. FireJet normally at night is ludicrously slow, and it's easy to abuse firebenders on the jet. With JetBlast, firebenders actually have a viable jet to use. JetBlaze was a welcome addition because it allowed for some interesting attack strategies with it. That and you could decide what type of range you'd want to use between the two amplified jets.
Well, for now those combos can exist. But when they do delete jetblast and jetblaze (and imo so should SurgeJetting), they should at the same time make firejet a little bit less weak at night, If it actually is that weak as you claim it to be.
 

SuperBower118

Verified Member
Well, for now those combos can exist. But when they do delete jetblast and jetblaze (and imo so should SurgeJetting), they should at the same time make firejet a little bit less weak at night, If it actually is that weak as you claim it to be.
JetBlaze isn't going anywhere. At most, they'll delete JetBlast. If you delete JetBlaze, firebenders don't have any solid offensive tools against airbending.
 

MeskenasBoii

Verified Member
JetBlaze isn't going anywhere. At most, they'll delete JetBlast. If you delete JetBlaze, firebenders don't have any solid offensive tools against airbending.
What does Jet Blaze exactly do though? firejet + blaze? You could do those by simply switching to them in between binds and using it in a sequence but opposite, though that wouldn't much difference.
 

SuperBower118

Verified Member
What does Jet Blaze exactly do though? firejet + blaze? You could do those by simply switching to them in between binds and using it in a sequence but opposite, though that wouldn't much difference.
...
It's a faster firejet that does damage when you get close to the person.
If you don't even know what part of the element does, then I don't see how you expect to get your point across seriously.
 

MeskenasBoii

Verified Member
If you don't even know what part of the element does, then I don't see how you expect to get your point across seriously.
Well to me, as far I seen it - it just dealt damage when around it before bursting away - which can be done with blaze conjuction as I mention. Didn't notice that it was fast as you claim it to be, but wouldn't be easy to pull of FireBlaze with just jetblast + blaze?
 

SuperBower118

Verified Member
Well to me, as far I seen it - it just dealt damage when around it before bursting away - which can be done with blaze conjuction as I mention. Didn't notice that it was fast as you claim it to be, but wouldn't be easy to pull of FireBlaze with just jetblast + blaze?
No, not quite. JetBlaze does more damage- blaze is extremely pathetic: it's slow, does little damage thanks to the removal of firetick, and you can't charge moves if you're spamming blaze.
 
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