Debate: Should Self-SurgeJet work on Land?

[MeskenasBoii]

Had this Suggestion made with a "No", but it got denied. I honestly don't think waterbenders should be capable to push surge behind themselves (with the help of plants).

Why?

1. Despite on how unrealistic it is, there are alternatives for it: waterwave and Waterarms-grapple.
2. Following the canon lore, waterbenders didn't do that: Katara just send the wave from behind without splashing herself (by creating a temporal split gab of air) but intentionally soaking toph in the process whilst it passed through the water approaching the blind girl.
3. Read the spoilers.

Now, I'm not saying that this should be removed ultimately. I just think it is incovient for a waterbender to be mobile the same or almost as an airbender outside their dominated swimming pool. I think Self-SurgeJet should be ineffected on dry-ground/overland (by the means and criteria of the pointed #2 argumented).

What do you guys think? If you vote, please give your reason as to why.

My arguments:

Spoiler: Why User-Surge-Jet shouldn't work on land (but should on water)

Too summarize in a verdict ; TL;DR version :
1) Logic isn't always the label for "fun". (e.g, logically combustion killing you in a instant: ain't fun)
2) Devs have plans to nerf airblast (i.e. remove sourcing) and replace it with AirJump-alike custom ability as a stock, so I don't see why they shouldn't remove waterbending counterpart (i.e. self-SurgeTsunami).

• Otherwise, that leaves them bias airbenders with unfair one-sided choice (#WaterbenderLivesMatter).

3)I have numerious of cases as to how pushing others and pushing yourself work differently:

a)Surging-yourself takes chargetime. (argument why should waterspout be used instead of surge)
b)Surging-yourself is short-paced, not fast. (argument why should waterspout be used instead of surge)
c)Surging-yourself wave doesn't look accurate, i.e. to flat wall looking (minor, but still an argument...)​

- Every waterbender I see met those criterias when they used your speculated "surge". It is just waterwave (again, waterspout-left click feature, If you haven't notice by now...), nothing more or less. Pushing/Knocking off others is just the real SURGE, minus the c# point (that's up for another talk, but like I said it's a minor flaw, which isn't worth of looking as the A# and B# outweighs its mild focus)
4)Ming-hua used waterspout-esque, not a hoverboard (water wasn't suspending and hovering of the ground or any other solid surface, such as a wall, so it was intact with the ground hence not hovering).

 

[AndDrew]

This surge feature has been in the bending plugin since the dawn of the plugin itself. It's a great and fun feature, very usefull as well. Bending *shouldn't* be totally be focused around 'canon or not' it should be gameplay mechanics, and surge works very well, without surge jetting water would be so immobile. Without surge jetting on land it'd be harder to get out when you're stranded on land.

 

[NickC1211]

This surge feature has been in the bending plugin since the dawn of the plugin itself. It's a great and fun feature, very usefull as well. Bending *shouldn't* be totally be focused around 'canon or not' it should be gameplay mechanics, and surge works very well, without surge jetting water would be so immobile. Without surge jetting on land it'd be harder to get out when you're stranded on land.

I kind of agree that we should not remove surge jet, but just because it's been here for a long time doesn't mean it's not subject to change. Also katara did that with the purpose of hitting tops and not herself so she probably made it do that.

 

[MeskenasBoii]

This surge feature has been in the bending plugin since the dawn of the plugin itself. It's a great and fun feature, very usefull as well. Bending *shouldn't* be totally be focused around 'canon or not' it should be gameplay mechanics, and surge works very well, without surge jetting water would be so immobile. Without surge jetting on land it'd be harder to get out when you're stranded on land.

Response to every your sentence: A lot have been ,as like you phrased it: "since the dawn of the plugin itself", but they were removed regardless. I disagree on the "shouldn't", So you're saying waterarms grapple is useless and immobile to keep waterbendes at their pace. With waterarms-grapple, I don't how that makes it a lot harder for waterbenders to be mobile.

And may I ask again: what's wrong with using the alternatives for it: waterwave and waterarms grapple?

"It's a great and fun feature, very usefull as well."
While yes, self-surgejet is very useful, but what is there to stop the counterargument for allowing airbenders to airblast INSIDE water? Useful = Needed? I don't think so! According to you and with my compared hypothetical analogy, it would be great, fun and useful feature.

And If you stay tuned with the trello, I read that "AirJump" might be hinting that they consider the idea of removing self-airblast and replace it with a new (nerf) ability dedicated for that feature, which I presume by the fact that the forum once had a heated discussion about how airbenders are op and that self-airblast should be removed.

I think it would be fair, If PK considers nerfing airblast, so should have to surge as well. Otherwise, the two bending arts would be than contradicting each other by the canon logic "water the most mobile, air the least mobile".

 

[MeskenasBoii]

. Also katara did that with the purpose of hitting tops and not herself so she probably made it do that.

Although, have we ever seen her surging herself? I did not, I only seen her waterwave.

 

[MeskenasBoii]

@Hero @SuperBower118 @xNuminousx I invite you to join this party!

 

[NickC1211]

Although, have we ever seen her surging herself? I did not, I only seen her waterwave.

Yea but we also never say her do a proper water spout but that's a thing

 

[MeskenasBoii]

Yea but we also never say her do a proper water spout but that's a thing

She didn't, but other waterbenders did. Just to rephrase my question to make it relevant with the argument: "Have we ever seen anyone surging themselves?

 

[xNuminousx]

Yea but we also never say her do a proper water spout but that's a thing

Katara does some pretty nifty things with water in the comics.

There are 3 examples of surge jetting in THIS thread. Although I wouldn't call the examples "surge jetting" Especially when they represent something different.... Waterbenders are using this move with PLANTS! That, I agree, should not be a thing. Using it IN water, I'd be fine with that. But extracting a huge wave from a few blades of grass (As Project Korra is implying is possible) I do not agree with.

I am going to vote "No" but not to disagree with surge on land, but to disagree with surge using plants. I think you could take a huge wave and use it to propel you further on land, but you should not be able to extract surge from a plant. It must be limited to either a water source period, or a water source with an adequate amount of water.

 

[xNuminousx]

This could be a source for Surge Jetting?



Here's one of the nifty things I was talking about:

She took the earth king around the village with this "Water Slide" thing...

Yea but we also never say her do a proper water spout but that's a thing

Here's a proper water spout

 

[MeskenasBoii]

She took the earth king around the village with this "Water Slide" thing...

Which isn't surge.

This could be a source for Surge Jetting?

Doesn't function like one. Also, the question put in the title is in regards with overland mobility, so I don't mind the technique working only in across wet (water, snow or ice) enviroments.

 

[xNuminousx]

Which isn't surge

I know it wasn't surge, I was just supporting this:

Katara does some pretty nifty things with water in the comics.

 

[MeskenasBoii]

Yeah, that's ice wave, but I do like how Katara picks a passenger on her private ice park. Oh and this reminds me: I might create a suggestion for icewave for improvements, such as the one I described in this comment.

 

[xNuminousx]

This surge feature has been in the bending plugin since the dawn of the plugin itself.

Doesn't make it right? And although it's been in the plugin for a while, this isn't trying to remove surge as a whole; as Mesk said:

the question put in the title is in regards with overland mobility

Bending *shouldn't* be totally be focused around 'canon or not' it should be gameplay mechanics

I'm judging off of realistic logic here. The argument of canon is just a supporting argument, if it is canon. However, the rule of "canon" should never support that something should exist in the plugin; there are plenty of non-canon things that should exist in the plugin.

without surge jetting water would be so immobile.

I get around just fine as a waterbender, thank you very much... (PS Although surge is in my binds I don't use it to jet, but rather to push and trap).

Without surge jetting on land it'd be harder to get out when you're stranded on land.

Water isn't supposed to be this mobile, their supposed to be resourceful. So make like a waterbender and use EVERY resource to your advantage! Although, there aren't really enough stock abilities to make Water resourceful on land... JedCore helps out in that aspect. #ShoutOutToFrostBreath

 

[xNuminousx]

Yeah, that's ice wave, but I do like how Katara picks a passenger on her private ice park. Oh and this reminds me: I might create a suggestion for icewave for improvements, such as the one I described in this comment.

If this is "Ice Wave" then Pk is WAY off... In the comic she uses it as a "slide" and rather than the ice following her, she follows the ice (If that makes sense).

 

[MeskenasBoii]

Yeah, ice wave in-game is dull. Don't we have enough freezing techniques for now? Torrent, Surge and Icewave don't differen't now much. Every fight with a waterbenders ends up (s)he freezing 5-7 times per battle. Kinda annoying If you think about it.

 

[SuperBower118]

@Hero @SuperBower118 @xNuminousx I invite you to join this party!

Surge get is really in the same category as Airblast Jump. While it's unique and certainly useful (as opposed for absolutely essential at the moment for air), it's not impossible for it to be subject to change.

This surge feature has been in the bending plugin since the dawn of the plugin itself. It's a great and fun feature, very usefull as well. Bending *shouldn't* be totally be focused around 'canon or not' it should be gameplay mechanics, and surge works very well, without surge jetting water would be so immobile. Without surge jetting on land it'd be harder to get out when you're stranded on land.

That's one of the downsides to water... you didn't see them traveling the land at 50 MPH from a rose.

 

[xNuminousx]

it's not impossible for it to be subject to change.

That's one of the downsides to water... you didn't see them traveling the land at 50 MPH from a rose.

I'm confused... Are you for or against them fixing Surge Jet with plants?

 

[MeskenasBoii]

For. He said that it is possible to change it.

Useful or not, it shouldn't stay. Airblast can be change to work underwater, and you'll have accept it according to your rent Doggoh. Nobody (aka bias airbending fans) would bat an eye on it.

Išsiųsta naudojantis SM-G313HN Tapatalk 4 Lt

 

[SuperBower118]

I'm confused... Are you for or against them fixing Surge Jet with plants?

As a response from me, for them fixing SurgeJet with plants, and quite frankly, waterbending as well. It's not exactly realistic at all. And I'm not one to crucify bending (and people's suggestions for bending) for being somewhat scientifically impossible. Just grabbing half a pond's worth of water from a bush doesn't cut it for me, and it's quite annoying to face off against a waterbender. There is no effective counterplay to it because each plant source is worth an equal source of water. I digress, and I'll probably make a thread on this later. On the topic of surge jet, I do believe that the way how it operates needs to be drastically changed, because there is no reason for any element in the game to have such a sudden burst of mobility for such a small cost.