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Suggestion EarthSmash - Many Changes Needed

xNuminousx

Verified Member
Well again, I don't think they should be able to fully control the direction. It is a heavy boulder, and it is a rock so whatever direction is its original direction, it probably won't change much. So if you shift looking up and try going to the right a bit, it'll be difficult to turn it. I don't think the CURRENT mode of Earth Smash Flight is logically correct, but I do think it should still be possible to use it to go in a direction.


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MeskenasBoii

Verified Member
Well I'd say we should be straighed from what canon offers us. Let's admit: Earthsmash riderrs are exactly like firejetters. The Firejet itself should need a change. It just feels somehow wrong.
No, because you can't bend the skateboard. It's irrelevant.
Hypocritical, because you did mention "real life examples". I'm providing an analogy relevant to rl, excluding the similarity to the objects/target weight and the persons strength.

When an earthbenders lifts someone else, same thing could be applied in real life: pushing the strength criteria and object mass/weight (and gosh darn it, I forgot the difference between those two terms) aside, any man/human can lift someone else by pulling a blanket that they're lying on.

Now the question is: can someone lift themselves by pulling what's under them to carry themselves, thus self-exert?

I can't help, but see earthbending working exactly like that what's possible in real life, by that r logic. And asides from those hypothesis analysis, I can't help but wonder why earthbenders didn't take an opportunity once in their lifetime to achieve flight from the show and the comics? The 'Style", or should I call how-it-was-portrayed, should be another thing to take into consideration If you happen to disprove the hypothesis side of it.

The Latter thing just makes it non-earthbendish
 
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xNuminousx

Verified Member
Hypocritical, because you did mention "real life examples".
Not hypocritical, I also mentioned substitutions because Bending isn't actually real but, of course, you failed to quote that. And in this case you're saying some can physically (rather than kenetically) push a skateboard to the top of the tower. That's why it's irrelevant. Yea, it's force, but why use an impossible example to support your case? If you say "but they can bend th skate board, how bout that?" Then we are back to square one, where we ask if that's possible. So no, I'm not being hypocritical. The skateboard example is dealing with physical connection where Bending deals with kinetic connect and we've already established the two are different by looking at how Bolin, Su, and Lin pushed a tall building over on their own.

Earthbenders didn't do it beause is so inefficient. Imagine this: You're in the middle of an intense battle. You decide it's best to use your remaining strength to lift a boulder from the ground, hop on it, then sail right towards them/away from them. Catapult would be much easier and way more effective that Earth Smash flight. Now this is Minecraft where circumstances are a bit different, although we strive so much to be as close to real life as possible. Here, our catapult could have a long cooldown depending on the server. I need a quick escape I use my catapult to charge my EarthSmash rather than to run away. While flying/sailing on the earth smash you can recharge your catapult which would also help in your escape. Although not efficient in real life, it'd be useful in Minecraft.
 

MeskenasBoii

Verified Member
Think of it like picking up the earthsmash while someone else is on top of it. As the boulder rises, the entity on top of it rises. Same logic would apply if YOU were on it. If your on top of it, what would prevent you from manipulate it? Yea you have the force but I've already proved force for a bender doesn't act the same way it does for us. It'll be difficult, sure. But not impossible. You lift the boulder standing right next to it, so why not lift it while you're on it?


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I guess your right. I guess I can only argue that it ain't earthbend-ish and just question why the three earthbenders didn't took the opportunity to help airbenders fight along in mid-air.
 

MeskenasBoii

Verified Member
Not hypocritical, I also mentioned substitutions because Bending isn't actually real but, of course, you failed to quote that. And in this case you're saying some can physically (rather than kenetically) push a skateboard to the top of the tower. That's why it's irrelevant. Yea, it's force, but why use an impossible example to support your case? If you say "but they can bend th skate board, how bout that?" Then we are back to square one, where we ask if that's possible. So no, I'm not being hypocritical. The skateboard example is dealing with physical connection where Bending deals with kinetic connect and we've already established the two are different by looking at how Bolin, Su, and Lin pushed a tall building over on their own.

Earthbenders didn't do it beause is so inefficient. Imagine this: You're in the middle of an intense battle. You decide it's best to use your remaining strength to lift a boulder from the ground, hop on it, then sail right towards them/away from them. Catapult would be much easier and way more effective that Earth Smash flight. Now this is Minecraft where circumstances are a bit different, although we strive so much to be as close to real life as possible. Here, our catapult could have a long cooldown depending on the server. I need a quick escape I use my catapult to charge my EarthSmash rather than to run away. While flying/sailing on the earth smash you can recharge your catapult which would also help in your escape. Although not efficient in real life, it'd be useful in Minecraft.
Why not just earthwave away (like push yourself along the ground? Wouldn't that be affective?

Why did the two earthbenders, the mentor of and with Roku had to go up-hill by waving along the ground instead of helicopter there straight from the ground?
 

MeskenasBoii

Verified Member
Yeah.. If earthsmash was nerf to be ridden along the ground, to balance other elements:
  • User-SurgeJet will have to work only in/on water, snow and ice.
  • Firejet... should probably give only a boost, with the exception of a sozin's comment.
  • Air Jump replaces AirBlastjet.
 

xNuminousx

Verified Member
Yeah.. If earthsmash was nerf to be ridden along the ground, to balance other elements:
  • User-SurgeJet will have to work only in/on water, snow and ice.
  • Firejet... should probably give only a boost, with the exception of a sozin's comment.
  • Air Jump replaces AirBlastjet.
I think earth smash should go in a set direction rather than so fluid and controllable.

Surge jet should only be in water, as you said

FireJet should have a set direction to. No loopty-loops unless it's Sozin's Comet.

AirJump should replace airblast. AirBlast and AirSuction combine into one move, possible just called AirBlast, and when you click you use the Push method and when you shift you use the suction method. (Sourcing would be removed from Air Blast/Suction.)
 

MeskenasBoii

Verified Member
AirBlast and AirSuction combine into one move, possible just called AirBlast, and when you click you use the Push method and when you shift you use the suction method.
AirControl or Aerokinesis perhaps? Or just removing the initial element and leave it as "BlastandSuction".
 

xNuminousx

Verified Member
AirControl or Aerokinesis perhaps? Or just removing the initial element and leave it as "BlastandSuction".
I think they should be combined for efficiency. Clicking would just push out a blast. Shifting would creation a suction, the source would either be at the closest block within its range, the closest player, or just at the max range if they are looking in the air. I like "AirBlast" because it's easy to type and familiar to most people.
 

Vahagn

Staff member
Plugin Developer
Verified Member
2. EarthSmash can simulate Flight for the user.
Similar to #1 problem, it just contradicts how the physics works (or at least the laws of bending). Like how self-exertion is impossible (aka. Pulling your own hair to ascend yourself in mid air), earthsmash shouldn't work like an helicopter for the user with or without another passenger. In other words, the analogy is: earthsmash helicopter shouldn't work (because similar to the logic by pulling a board which you're standing on to attempt achieve the effects of flight), while firejet should (because its similar to using a jet pack).
I don't mean to burst your bubble when it comes to physics, but this isn't self exertion, you aren't physically lifting the rock below you to lift yourself. The thing with pulling your hair or using a board is that no human being has the strength to pull themselves up by their hair, the second thing is that you don't have a proper fulcrum, (your elbow is not a proper fulcrum when pulling on your own hair to lift yourself) the third thing is that you pull with the same force your hair pulls back on you with ( every reaction has an equal yet opposite reaction) but your body has a greater mass than your arm so its not as easily moved. The concept with EarthSmash is not that your physically lifting the earth with your own muscle mass, but that you are using earthbending (which I define as a form of telekinesis [only with earth]) to lift the earth in turn lifting your body. The real thing behind this is a proper fulcrum, given a proper fulcrum you can move anything, even the Earth.

Sorry for the physics lesson but I just wanted to point out that the logic behind it was flawed.
 

SuperBower118

Verified Member
Just have...
EarthSmash fall down to the ground when you exit the slot for EarthSmash or you walk away from it outside a... perhaps 10 block radius.

Toggle the flight option off on the default config...

Have a list of breakable blocks that EarthSmash can go through (this should be implemented into some other moves, such as FireBlast and WaterManip) and have the default be stuff like leaves, glass, ice, etc.
 

xNuminousx

Verified Member
EarthSmash fall down to the ground when you exit the slot for EarthSmash or you walk away from it outside a... perhaps 10 block radius.
With my animation idea I gave!

Toggle the flight option off on the default config...
This doesn't necessarily suit me, as we've been discussing the current "flight" mode is far too mobile and should be changed.

Have a list of breakable blocks that EarthSmash can go through
I agree with having a list, it's far more interactive this way rather than just having the set amount/types of things.
FireBlast and WaterManip
However idk about these breaking BLOCKS... Maybe note stone, wood, glass blocks, etc but they could break plants such as leaves and grass, as well as glass panes.
 

MeskenasBoii

Verified Member
Don't know If you can change of ice breaking into frost ice (the new 1.9 block) in a milisecond, but If it is possible it would be dope animation.

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MeskenasBoii

Verified Member
I don't mean to burst your bubble when it comes to physics, but this isn't self exertion, you aren't physically lifting the rock below you to lift yourself. The thing with pulling your hair or using a board is that no human being has the strength to pull themselves up by their hair, the second thing is that you don't have a proper fulcrum, (your elbow is not a proper fulcrum when pulling on your own hair to lift yourself) the third thing is that you pull with the same force your hair pulls back on you with ( every reaction has an equal yet opposite reaction) but your body has a greater mass than your arm so its not as easily moved. The concept with EarthSmash is not that your physically lifting the earth with your own muscle mass, but that you are using earthbending (which I define as a form of telekinesis [only with earth]) to lift the earth in turn lifting your body. The real thing behind this is a proper fulcrum, given a proper fulcrum you can move anything, even the Earth.

Sorry for the physics lesson but I just wanted to point out that the logic behind it was flawed.
It still weird though to lift the rock below you like a hydra jet. Closest we got was not lifting it but pushing. Bending doesn't have to be canon, but in this particular case it just ruins earthbending. There's no distinction to firejetting technique and earth shouldn't be too mobile. It grinds my gear (that idiom means "annoys", right?) when I see someone, myself including, lifting from the ground to the sky limit.

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xNuminousx

Verified Member
It still weird though to lift the rock below you like a hydra jet. Closest we got was not lifting it but pushing. Bending doesn't have to be canon, but in this particular case it just ruins earthbending. There's no distinction to firejetting technique and earth shouldn't be too mobile. It grinds my gear (that idiom means "annoys", right?) when I see someone, myself including, lifting from the ground to the sky limit.

Išsiųsta naudojantis SM-G313HN Tapatalk 4 Lt
With the changes I suggested, it'd legit be SORT OF like catapult. It goes straight up or straight in whatever direction you're looking. Only difference is with Earth Smash you'd be able to slightly change direction, whereas Catapult you can't. And not changing direction like it is now. It goes in 1 direction and if you look, let's say, to the right then it will slightly start going right. But because it's a heavy boulder the bender will not be able to fully turn this flying mass in whatever direction they want. There is a thing called momentum.
 

MeskenasBoii

Verified Member
Just let's give it the boolean options in config.yml:
CanFly: true/false
CanFlyInArches (meaning, like in the course of a rainbow-shape, If the above happens to be 'true' obviously): true/false​
 
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