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[Water&IceShield Counters] IceWall too OP (let's brainstorm how to nerf it?)

MeskenasBoii

MeskenasBoii

Verified Member
What's wrong...?
1. Not really a big problem, because it rarely happens, but there's a case where a waterbender can just camp in an arena with Surge held in a solid state, making it impossible to kill or land a hit on the waterbender. This also unbalances the stragedy of ever using watershield, because icewall is the dominant. Both need to be diversive, useful (especally WaterShield) and balance (especally IceShield)! Any ideas on how it can be nerfed? Like what abilities it should not block and which it should? If you guys have any ideas, please share them.

One of the ideas comes to my mind, is for combustion and fireburst's cone to nulify the ability and put it on a cooldown when it collides with the respective iceshield.

Ideas
@Easte can you move this? Thank you in advance :)

IceWall counters:
  • Earthsmash: (boulder beats ice) shatters it and goes pass through its spot, and can succesfully (if not interfared) hit the waterbender or anyone that was behind the shield.
  • Earthblast should puncture it.
  • Combustion: shatter it like how already does, but fail at completely reaching the target/waterbender, but should cause knockback regardless (P'li vs Tonraq reference).
  • Phasechange: turn it back to water.
  • WaterBubble: dissipate it.
  • Four arrow hits should destroy it (Aang vs Archors reference).
  • Lightning should destroy it.
I think watershield and iceshield should have opposite/conflicting counter right now, because with this suggestion IceWall is dominant, whilst WaterWall will become useless.

WaterWall counters:
  • I can imagine waterwall stopping/grasbing a bunch of earthblasts, but perhaps earthblasts should break through the shield and succesfully over pass the barrier? Maybe shoud slow down or grab EarthSmash too?
    • On a off a small unrelated, regarding Surge's WAVE ability, it should push back EarthSmash backwards. (Unalaq vs Biolin reference)
  • Obviously, like how it currently: Airblast wins (passes through) over WaterWall, but IceWall wins (blocks) over Airblast.
  • Airswipe and AirSweep should still go through both types of shield, because its a slicing air projectile.
  • AirBurst should deal knockback through WaterShield, but destroy completely (or half: with avatarstate inducing devasting gref) IceWall.
  • Twister should either fail against IceWall or WaterWall too.
  • For the rest airbending abilities (except Suffocate, since it bends air from remote distance), all of them should fail.

Regarding water bender defender fighting against provoking waterbender, WaterShield should nulify water state attacks only, while iceshield - ice effectively. Respectively, or the other way around (wallwall > ice | icewall > water)
 
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MeskenasBoii

MeskenasBoii

Verified Member
EarthSmash should crash through and reach its target easily. Combustion should deal decent knockback once shot at (I remember Tonraq getting flunged after its shield failed to block P'li's attack.

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FirePro7860

Verified Member
And how about water and air? Maybe shockwave should break it too, and maybe sonicblast? I don't know anything for water tho... any ideas?


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FirePro7860

Verified Member
OH OH, what if waterbenders could just melt it to its liquid form with phasechange, not that it would disappear but get liquified again, they should make a alternate cooldown for that shield state toggle too to make it actually effective (and stop it from being able to suffocate people...)


Anyway I can actually see this happening since PK has been toying with collision events
 
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MeskenasBoii

MeskenasBoii

Verified Member
Could a counter against waterbender. I remember Katara nullifying Pakku's shield.

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FirePro7860

Verified Member
Oh well, anyway I had an idea on making that ice wall needed to be attached to water, that would make it much less of a annoyance since air can jump over with ease


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MeskenasBoii

MeskenasBoii

Verified Member
FirePro7860 said:
Oh well, anyway I had an idea on making that ice wall needed to be attached to water, that would make it much less of a annoyance since air can jump over with ease
Click to expand...
It would be graceful If you didn't have to select the source to create a static icewall when water is in front of the user.
 
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FirePro7860

Verified Member
MeskenasBoii said:
It would be graceful If you didn't have to select the source to create a static icewall when water is in front of the user.
Click to expand...
Exactly,just shift in the air while there's water in front of u and it would use the ice wall animation from jedcore was it? Anyway, good one for not selecting it, didn't think of that, kinda balances it back a bit
 
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FirePro7860

Verified Member
Oh yeah, bottle bending is a thing... forgot since it's broken now :p but that's sort of what I meant indeed


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xNuminousx

xNuminousx

Verified Member
Different ways the elements can counter Surge's infamous Ice Wall

Fire:
For starters, fire melts water. Since the Waterbender is focusing on the ice and not existing water, if a FireBlast comes into contact with the wall, the wall could start melting sort of. Not continuously, just bit by bit. Like 1 FireBlast hitting the wall could = 1 ice block disappearing from a random location on the wall. The only way the waterbender can regenerate the ice is by starting a new shield. If a charged FireBlast comes into contact with the wall, it will explode a small/decently sized hole in the area it collided with.

When someone uses a FireShield while standing against, or within the radius, of the IceWall, the wall will start melting like with the FireBlast but it will be 2x or 3x faster than normal. A bit lesser than the new PhaseChange melting feature.

If you use FireWheel or FireSpin against the wall, any area touched by the flames will rapidly start to melt, leaving holes in the wall.

Water:
Water has control over phases, and the element focuses on redirecting energy onto oneself. A waterbender could use someones IceWall as a source of water. For example, Ice Spike. If you click an Ice surface, usually an ice spike will form under someone, launching them in the air. If you look at an ice wall and click with IceSpike, a spike will form horizontally out of the wall and towards the bender, knocking them back some.

PhaseChange can be used to melt their wall/make their wall disappear/evaporate.

Similarly to how an Earthbender can redirect an EarthSmash, possibly a Waterbender could click at an IceWall with Surge which makes the IceWall go against it's master and deal knockback = to the Surge knockback.

Earth:
When an IceWall is being hit by any of the earth moves you should hear ice breaking and see holes being made in the shield where the wall took damage. If the Wall is hit by an EarthBlast, there should be a tiny creater in the wall where the EarthBlast hit.

If an EarthSmash comes into contact with an IceWall, the wall should crumble leaving the Waterbender defenseless.

If the Surge wall (water or ice) comes near or into contact with lava it should melt (if it's ice) then (if it's water) evaporate.

Air:
When an Airbender uses Airblast against an IceWall, the bender and the wall should be pushed back in the direction of the wall. Similarly, an Airbender can use Airsuction behind the person using the wall to pull the Waterbender towards the airbender; making the Waterbender temporarily disoriented and vulnerable.

If an Airbender uses AirBurst (cone or sphere) against/towards an IceWall, the Waterbender should loose control of the wall and the wall flies back towards the Waterbender (representing the force of the blast being too great for the Waterbender to handle) and take damage and some knockback from being slammed by an ice wall. If the wall is Water, you could probably see water start to fall to the ground because the AirBurst would overwhelm the Waterbender and make them loose control of the water.
 
MeskenasBoii

MeskenasBoii

Verified Member
I think fire could use just firejet over it, because countering wouldn't really make sense unless you have the posibility to combustion bend. It would become easier If IceWall becomes static in an update change (let's be real: that's not how icewalls always were: they just stayed, and acted more like RaiseEarths). Now that I recall, actually fireblast should counter it. Zuko slayed Katara because didn't compress her shield in time.

For Earth, I do agree, but I still think EarthSmash should succesful shatter it through and injure their targets regardless if the shield is there or not. It's a f***ing boulder. Earthbenders shouldn't be discourage at throwing them, because physics: rock > ice.

I don't think a small/medium gust of air should push the wall or the waterbender with it. It makes sense for Airburst, but airblast? They have advantage of WaterWall, so it becomes pointless to freeze at all If the solid version doesn't give a challenge to the airbender and the both versions aren't diversive anymore. Also, Airburst already goes through watershield, so that idea is pretty pointless (though, I might be wrong! It is still small, so I think adding that sort of bonus wouldn't hurt).
 
xNuminousx

xNuminousx

Verified Member
MeskenasBoii said:
I don't think a small/medium gust of air should push the wall or the waterbender with it. It makes sense for Airburst, but airblast? They have advantage of WaterWall, so it becomes pointless to freeze at all If the solid version doesn't give a challenge to the airbender and the both versions aren't diversive anymore. Also, Airburst already goes through watershield, so that idea is pretty pointless (though, I might be wrong! It is still small, so I think adding that sort of bonus wouldn't hurt).
Click to expand...
In the show an Airbender could control the amount of pressure issued by their Airblast, in the plugin we don't get this luxury. When using an Airblast against an IceWall and then it having an effect could resemble an more focused/powerful blast.
 
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