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[Water&IceShield Counters] IceWall too OP (let's brainstorm how to nerf it?)

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FirePro7860

Verified Member
Maybe just make it so you need to "spam" airblast to build pressure, maybe that can become a major thing about airbending too

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MeskenasBoii

MeskenasBoii

Verified Member
You can't really increase pressure by constantly spamming small short- bursts.

I think four arrow hits should also shatter the shield, because we seen how archers affectively pin Aang down through his shield.

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MeskenasBoii

MeskenasBoii

Verified Member
Yeah it should (but not reach the defender). Thanks for spoting that one. Adding it.


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MeskenasBoii

MeskenasBoii

Verified Member
I think watershield and iceshield should have opposite/conflicting counter right now, because with this suggestion IceWall is dominant, whilst WaterWall will become useless.

I can imagine waterwall stopping/grasbing a bunch of earthblasts, but perhaps earthblasts should break through the shield and succesfully over pass the barrier?
On a off a small unrelated, regarding Surge's WAVE ability, it should push back EarthSmash backwards.

Obviously, like how it currently: Airblast wins (passes through) over WaterWall, but IceWall wins (blocks) over Airblast. Airswipe and AirSweep should still go through both types of shield, because its a slicing air projectile. AirBurst should deal knockback through WaterShield, but destroy completely (or half: with avatarstate inducing devasting gref) IceWall. Twister should either fail against IceWall or witj WaterWall too. For the rest abilities (except Suffocate, since it bends air from remote distance), all of them should fail.

Regarding water bender defender fighting against provoking waterbender, WaterShield should nulify water state attacks only, while iceshield - ice effectively. Respectively, or the other way around (wallwall > ice | icewall > water)

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SuperBower118

SuperBower118

Verified Member
The shields shouldn't regenerate out of no where. While the WaterShield will block Fire with ease, it should also decrease in size eventually from constantly blocking a lot of Fire attacks. If a part of IceShield is chipped away, it should stay gone until you turn it back into watershield, re-submerge it a deep water source, and then bring it back out.
 
MeskenasBoii

MeskenasBoii

Verified Member
Or, If WaterShield gets its realistic size, fireblast should evaporate it quickly. Just the way how Katara blocked every zukos fireblasted, the water did block every of his fire attacks, but they were destroyed quickly.

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Hero

Hero

Verified Member
Yeah I am totally against this. Surge Shield itself isn't the greatest shield. If you leave it in water form, only Fire Blast and Fire Burst can be block. Every other element blast cuts right through water. I don't mind not water not blocking that well though. It's not like a water fall in your hands so the currents can push everything away; it's just a wall of water that's stagnant. Its ice form is the only shield in the plug-in that cannot safely block everything (besides fire shield). It serves as a wall, but it backfires a ton if it's used all the time. A person can climb over the wall sometimes and then you're screwed. A waterbender's Torrent can freeze them in a ball of ice. Earthbenders can still control the ground under them (not an issue at all). And fire is extremely fast. When I see firebenders fight nowadays, most of the time, they are flying around on firejet blasting them. Ice shield can't protect them everywhere *cough* put in my water dome *cough*. The only thing that I suggest is making the ice melt after fire hits it. I see no problem with people unfreezing it and freezing it to get a full shield back since that's what water does in real life (granted it gets thinner and thinner until it can't connect anymore). This suggestion is just for being canon and I don't see a point in, essentially, nerfing a shield that already isn't the best to begin with.
 
MeskenasBoii

MeskenasBoii

Verified Member
Hero said:
Yeah I am totally against this.
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*Triggered*. I know this is your opinion, but do you really wanna leave ice shield INDESTRUCTIBLE as it is?? I know combustion and fireblast can destroy it partly, but still - there's no PENALTY, especally when you can create another shield and just CAMP there.
Hero said:
Its ice form is the only shield in the plug-in that cannot safely block everything (besides fire shield).
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Evidence?
Hero said:
A person can climb over the wall sometimes and then you're screwed.
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People can climb an ice wall? Well that's something. They can jump over it, which I agree, but I can move it in synch with my opponents movements, then that's a problem (because nothing and nobody can reach it). People started complaining that I camp in a shield (which I did so to check whenever the shield is flawed, hence why this thread is created), because it's IMPOSSIBLE to have your attacks pass through it. And may I remind you, this is with a ICE shield. However, If Ice shield does gets nerf (so that it is BALANCE), watershields will have slight to make the both diversive and not to leave the liquid form pointless after the changes.

Hero said:
Earthbenders can still control the ground under them (not an issue at all).
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And I can put the shield UNDER my feet to block their entrace If the earthbender digs under or close to me.
Hero said:
And fire is extremely fast.
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Funny that you say that, because I still manage to block their path from reaching me.

Hero said:
Ice shield can't protect them everywhere
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Just because it is not omnidirection, doesn't make it less op. Usually, when outbalance things are talked, we generally put 1vs1 hypothesis into an argument. Waterbender vs players that gaang up on them isn't a valid reason to excuse the fact that it is op in 1-v-1 battles.
 
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Hero

Hero

Verified Member
MeskenasBoii said:
*Triggered*. I know this is your opinion, but do you really wanna leave ice shield INDESTRUCTIBLE as it is?? I know combustion and fireblast can destroy it partly, but still - there's no PENALTY, especally when you can create another shield and just CAMP there.

Evidence?
Yeah there's no penalty except having the person also regenerate health. No penalty to hold the shield except you cannot attack but they still can when they trick you into moving it. I had rapid punches go though my shield; water torrents hitting my shield and then freezing me in. I had lava spawn under my feet so I have to run away or i'll die.
People can climb an ice wall? Well that's something. They can jump over it, which I agree, but I can move it in synch with my opponents movements, then that's a problem. People started complaining that I camp in a shield (which I did so to check whenever the shield is flawed, hence why this thread is created), because it's IMPOSSIBLE to have your attacks pass through it. And may I remind you, this is with a ICE shield.
If you move it in sync with their movements and they still can't get through, you are playing with people who don't generally bend that often. It's not hard at all to out run people's shields and punish them hard. Firebenders can easily use firejet to whip around them. Earthbenders can spawn lava under them and cause them to flee (or use earthsmash). Waterbenders can use torrent and freeze them in. Airbenders are really the only element that doesn't have a way to punish them except just jumping over it and out running it.

And I can put the shield UNDER my feet to block their entrace If the earthbender digs under or close to me.
Yeah put it under your feet when an earthbender uses lava. Or have them earthgrab you and either use the floor as a lava pit or spam earthblasts from the wall around you.
Funny that you say that, because I still manage to block their path from reaching me.


Just because it is not omnidirection, doesn't make it less op. Usually, when outbalance thins are talked, we generally put 1vs1 hypothesis into an argument. Waterbender vs players that gaang up on them isn't a valid reason to excuse the fact that it is op in 1-v-1 battles.
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The Ice Shield isn't OP at all. It depends on the skills of both parties. If the waterbender can't use it that well, sol. If the person knows how to get past it, sol.
 
MeskenasBoii

MeskenasBoii

Verified Member
Hero said:
Surge Shield itself isn't the greatest shield.
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Ice Shield = RaiseEarth. I can agree on Water Wave not being the greatest, IF we were to exclude firebending defense (which can only block its own element attacks).
Hero said:
If you leave it in water form, only Fire Blast and Fire Burst can be block.
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Yup.

You really didn't prove how Surge is in general weak, except that people gaang up on the bender from all side but that can be argue to any bending situation since your outnumbered and odds of defeating all are low for an average bender.

The Fact that Surge can STOP a BOULDER (earthsmash) is really illogical and redudant, like the fact how walloffire can burn on fire. Now I'm saying both of these illogical features are ok, but I think both should be look into and tweaked.
 
Hero

Hero

Verified Member
MeskenasBoii said:
Ice Shield = RaiseEarth. I can agree on Water Wave not being the greatest, IF we were to exclude firebending defense (which can only block its own element attacks).

Yup.

You really didn't prove how Surge is general weak, except that people gaang up on the bender from all side but that can be argue to any bending situation since your outnumbered and odds of defeating all are low for an average bender.
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That was the point. Surge isn't OP or weak. It's been this way for years and if it was so OP, it would've been altered by now.
 
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