Denied Push and Pull (Water)

[Taiko the Waterbender]

Preliminar information:
I just went from a thread that ended with a fight and now I am feeling terrible x.x oh well.
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Here I suggest a change to waterbending: when using major attacks like Torrent, Water Wave, Octopus Form, both Surge forms can only be used when using water from water pools (every water zone that has at least 6 blocks of water: at north, south, west, east and below). Why? Because it seema kinda unreal to me if a Bender uses a dry sapling to create a great mass of water.
You would select the source as before but the move would not only use one water block but those who are next to too. Torrent is build with 10 water block, I think, when it is rotating. So when you select the water it gets ten blocks from one.
This would also happen to water bottles: only if you have six water botles you could use these major attacks.
WaterManipulation will not be affected by these alterations.
I only want to make WB more realistic. I know the cons, this would be a huge debuff, but thats how it is. We never saw Katara create a huge wave out of her can(?).
Another suggestion I have is with PhaseChange selected, if you shift while being target at a lightning you will be able to redirect it. I know it was never shown possible, canon nor logic, but hear me out: as Iroh explained, lightning redirection is the ability to turn the lightning into energy, then redirect it to outside the body. It was never said that the lightning was itself fire (what about Bolt when Amon toke his bending? Lightning to fire!!). The WB would be able to redirect the lightning but they will take half the damage they would take if they were hit. The lightnung they redirect will do only half of the original damage after leaving the WB body.
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Huge debuff.
Huge buff.
I dont know what to do with my life x.x

 

[paliate]

Your signature is bigger then your post tbh.

 

[Taiko the Waterbender]

Your signature is bigger then your post tbh.

hmm... ok, i will fix that xD

 

[HydroMan]

Changes like that would cause more watermanip spamming and also more water camping. About redirection... how can they redirect lightning?

 

[Taiko the Waterbender]

Changes like that would cause more watermanip spamming and also more water camping. About redirection... how can they redirect lightning?

I know what this would cause, but one step at time xD
About Lightning, I know that the probability of this to get denied is higher than my friend at firdays.
but
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"If you let the energy in your own body flow, the lightning will follow it. You must create a pathway from your fingertips up your arm to the shoulder, then down into the stomach. The stomach is the source of energy in your body; it is called the sea of chi. From your stomach you direct it up again and out the other arm. The stomach detour is critical; you must not let the lightning pass through your heart, or the damage could be deadly."
— Iroh teaching Zuko to redirect lightning.


Lightning redirection is a sub-skill of firebending that allows a firebender to absorb lightning into their body as energy, and release it in a more desirable direction. The technique was developed by Iroh after he studied master waterbenders, who redirect an opponent's energy rather than oppose it head-on. Lightning redirection works well for both natural and bender-generated lightning, and for electricity conducted through metal.

Iroh invented this technique watching Waterbenders pulling and pushing water.
Waterbenders would be capable of this, as they are specially experts on Changing and Channeling, by doing the same moves.
They would absorb the lightning and turn it into energy, and redirect it.
When Iroh explained to Zuko what was the Lightning, he said that it was separating Yin and Yang, positive and Negative energy. These told Waterbenders would not separate those energies but just guiding them.

 

[HydroMan]

I know what this would cause, but one step at time xD
About Lightning, I know that the probability of this to get denied is higher than my friend at firdays.
but
----
"If you let the energy in your own body flow, the lightning will follow it. You must create a pathway from your fingertips up your arm to the shoulder, then down into the stomach. The stomach is the source of energy in your body; it is called the sea of chi. From your stomach you direct it up again and out the other arm. The stomach detour is critical; you must not let the lightning pass through your heart, or the damage could be deadly."
— Iroh teaching Zuko to redirect lightning.


Lightning redirection is a sub-skill of firebending that allows a firebender to absorb lightning into their body as energy, and release it in a more desirable direction. The technique was developed by Iroh after he studied master waterbenders, who redirect an opponent's energy rather than oppose it head-on. Lightning redirection works well for both natural and bender-generated lightning, and for electricity conducted through metal.

Iroh invented this technique watching Waterbenders pulling and pushing water.
Waterbenders would be capable of this, as they are specially experts on Changing and Channeling, by doing the same moves.
They would absorb the lightning and turn it into energy, and redirect it.
When Iroh explained to Zuko what was the Lightning, he said that it was separating Yin and Yang, positive and Negative energy. These told Waterbenders would not separate those energies but just guiding them.

Yea ,Iron did learn from a waterbender by observing of they can push pull ,but it doesnt make sense for a waterbender redirect it ,of the first thing that those both elements are quite opposite other ,they dont go "along well"

 

[Taiko the Waterbender]

Yea ,Iron did learn from a waterbender by observing of they can push pull ,but it doesnt make sense for a waterbender redirect it ,of the first thing that those both elements are quite opposite other ,they dont go "along well"

but tell me exacly why Waterbenders can't redirect lightning, im kinda lost x.x

 

[JewFroJustin]

I disagree with the first suggestion because it seems like a huge debuff, even though you are suggesting that WB be able to redirect lightning. I am favorable of the redirection technique though. It was never shown to be possible, but it was developed by Iroh studying the WB making this seem somewhat legit (at least to me it is). Maybe there could be specialized techniques for all benders to learn that has to do with countering another bending style? Might even out the playing field a bit for people who thing their bending style is "underpowered". I don't have any ideas ATM though...

 

[SamuraiSnowman]

There is no logic to as how the waterbender could channel the lightning... Waterbenders cannot just bend the sub-skill of firebending, that's like saying a firebender should be able to airbend because it is also energy.. Allowing the elments to 'bend each other', per say, would almost be the same as giving them avatar! Yes it is energy, but every element is a different form of energy that is being controlled that a bender uses to bend.

 

[Taiko the Waterbender]

There is no logic to as how the waterbender could channel the lightning... Waterbenders cannot just bend the sub-skill of firebending, that's like saying a firebender should be able to airbend because it is also energy.. Allowing the elments to 'bend each other', per say, would almost be the same as giving them avatar! Yes it is energy, but every element is a different form of energy that is being controlled that a bender uses to bend.

*cof cof* mudbending *cof cof* vaporbending *cof cof* (I am very coffy [my best friend's name, who's my cat, is Kofi xD])
Elements can interact with one another. We have to keep an open mind. Now that the Avatar series is over we have to develop and not stay put where Mike and Brian left us.
Note that you are saying that there are sub-skills, which is something that is also said in Avatar Wiki and possibly in the series (at the moment, I am not sure). The four Elements are bounded to one another, we just have to find that bound. Recently Zaheer found the power of Breathbending. Anyone could have done that earlier, but they just didn't remember to do it. When Toph learned Metalbending, which at the time was considered IMPOSSIBLE, she went beyond the limits. When Hama learned Bloodbending, she went beyond the limits. "So there are four Elements: Water, Earth, Fire and Air. Wait! And Blood, Lightning, Metal, Lava, Plants..." There are FOUR Elements, which grows beyond the human thought. As the same they said it was impossible to metalbend, or bloodbend without the influence of the Full Moon, you are saying that it is impossible to redirect Lightning. Two energies: Yin and Yang. Two forces: Push and Pull. Two ancients: Moon and Ocean. This duality is everywhere. Did you know that there is a "sub-skill" (it is just a skill!) called Energybending. which was, also, discovered by a Waterbender? Did you know that the Healingbending is about redirecting chi, which is also what Lightning is about, redirecting using Chi paths?
There is Water on Earth and Air.
There is Earth on Fire and Water.
There is Fire on Air and Earth.
There is Air on Water and Fire.
There is Energy everywhere.

 

[SamuraiSnowman]

*cof cof* mudbending *cof cof* vaporbending *cof cof*

Mudbending is bending the water within the mud, there is no water inside of lightning. Vaporbending is bending water vapor.

"So there are four Elements: Water, Earth, Fire and Air. Wait! And Blood, Lightning, Metal, Lava, Plants..."

I don't think you understand sub-elements do you? Bloodbending is bending the water in the blood of the person. Metalbending is bending the refined earth within the metal. Lava is just making earth into lava, which is basically what the earth does at its core. Plants are bent by using the water that flows through them and gives them their structure. Lightning is just something that fire can do, not other elements.. Also

Did you know that there is a "sub-skill" (it is just a skill!) called Energybending.

I'm well aware of energybending, which is completely irrelevant to waterbending... It's a technique that of which involves spiritual energy, irrelevant to which type of bender made it..

ALSO:
http://projectkorra.com/forum/threads/the-official-projectkorra-set-of-subelements.1800/
This says not much for sub-elements will change, so unless this is somehow NOT a sub-element it probably won't be added..

 

[JewFroJustin]

Waterbenders cannot just bend the sub-skill of fire bending... Allowing the elments to 'bend each other', per say, would almost be the same as giving them avatar!

Just wanted to step in and say that no one "bends" lightning. Yes it is a Sub-Element, but as Iroh explained to us before: You are not bending the energy in the lightning, you are simply its guide. No one bends the lightning, they just create it and direct it. With that said, I would also like to make a point about the logistics of this add-on. Though it was never proved that someone of another element could redirect lightning, it was shown that someone who cannot generate lightning, can still posses the ability to redirect it. That's enough for me to believe that water benders could do so.

which is also what Lightning is about, redirecting using Chi paths?

Also this is true. Lightning hasn't to do with fire specifically. Sure only fire can generate it, but it was explained that while generating lightning a fire bender is separating the two types of energy (Yin and Yang) and after separating them they quickly clash together creating an immense amount of energy turning into lightning, only directed by the bender. As long as someone knows how to redirect those energies, I think they can redirect lightning. Isn't that what water benders are all about? Redirection? Using your enemy's attacks against them?

 

[Taiko the Waterbender]

Mudbending is bending the water within the mud, there is no water inside of lightning. Vaporbending is bending water vapor.

I don't think you understand sub-elements do you? Bloodbending is bending the water in the blood of the person. Metalbending is bending the refined earth within the metal. Lava is just making earth into lava, which is basically what the earth does at its core. Plants are bent by using the water that flows through them and gives them their structure. Lightning is just something that fire can do, not other elements.. Also

I'm well aware of energybending, which is completely irrelevant to waterbending... It's a technique that of which involves spiritual energy, irrelevant to which type of bender made it..

ALSO:
http://projectkorra.com/forum/threads/the-official-projectkorra-set-of-subelements.1800/
This says not much for sub-elements will change, so unless this is somehow NOT a sub-element it probably won't be added..

~Mudbending is possible to Earth and Waterbenders. Vaporbending is possible to Air and Waterbenders. I didn't said that there was water inside the Lightning. As Justin said, you are not bending the Lightning, just redirecting it. "I'm well aware of energybending, which is completely irrelevant to waterbending... It's a technique that of which involves spiritual energy, irrelevant to which type of bender made it.." OMG you said it! Energybending is IRRELEVANT to the bender! There is just ONE energy, that can manifest in various forms. Spiritual and Electric energy are the same, just in different phases. ALso, I just said that Waterbenders could redirect Lightning due the fact they are the experts on redirecting. But, in theory, as long the person knows how redirection works, anyone can redirect.

 

[Mist]

Denied. This isn't a necessary buff, it enables Water Campers a little more (and god knows we don't need any of that). While the idea is practical in a canon sense, it is not practical for the plugin we have created. Thanks for the suggestion nonetheless!