[Water] WaterManipulation Changes

[Taiko the Waterbender]

Am I the only one here feeling that WaterManipulation is crappy as it is right now?

What (do I think) is wrong with WaterManipulation:

• Spammable;
• Weak.

Before starting throwing ashes at me because of the weak, listen to me.
We ALL know that Spambending in PK has been a trouble for too long, at least, to Waterbending. As said before for one of the members, "Water is the element of change. CHANGE. Not spam".

Solutions to reduce the spammability (if that's a word) of WaterManipulation:

• Diminuting the range of setting the move: I don't know if this is already configurable, but a Waterbender, right now, can throw WaterManipulations from a great distance, being this one of the tricks of the WaterCampers. The default should be three blocks radius from the player to bend WaterManipulation from a plant and six from a water block;
• After throwing four water blasts, if you launch a fifth, the first will drop, so you are only bending four bodies of Water at time.

This "weakness" I was referring is that at the moment, WaterManipulation's body is the same if it is used from a plant, water block or a bottle.
Solutions to get it better:

• If bent from a bottle, plant or snow layer block it should look like it is right now;
• If it is bent from a water block, it would be three blocks (at least) in lenght and it would do more one point of damage (half a heart).

Reasons to support these changes:

• We don't want an unfair plugin;
• As said before, spam has been a problem from too long;
• In the show, we never saw a normal Waterbender bending any percentage of Water from such a huge distance as in the plugin;
• In the show, we never saw a normal Waterbender bending this amount of WaterManipulations that in the plugin we bend;
• In the show, Waterbenders never shot the same amount of Water from a skin/bottle that they do from a body of Water, affecting its lenght. Examples:
  • Is isn't from the show, but you can get the idea:
    
  • Here, in the intro from The Legend of Korra
    
  • Extracting Water from the snow in a battle against some Equalists at the door of the Police Headquarters, "Book One: Air" from The Legend of Korra
    
    
    
  • "Book Two: Spirits" from The Legend of Korra, when Desna, Eska and her boyfriend and famous actor, Bolin, try to survive from an horde of Spirits at the Spirit World.
    

Thanks for reading. Feel free to suggest anything constructive.​

 

[Joeri]

Sorry but Fire, Air, and Earth can even spamm more due the fact that Fire and Air don't require a source and that there is more earth then water in MC

Secondly, I think the selection range reduction is terrible. it's a giant part that makes WaterMani different from EarthBlast and it was never in the show that water benders needed to be in specific range to extract water

 

[Taiko the Waterbender]

I didn't say that other Elements weren't spammable.
Katara wasn't able to bend Water from a cloud at the desert of Earth Kingdom.

 

[Joeri]

I didn't say that other Elements weren't spammable.
Katara wasn't able to bend Water from a cloud at the desert of Earth Kingdom.

You are overextending, Ofcourse she wasn't able to bend from a cloud. but she didnt have to be within 6 blocks. She could easily extract water from 10-15 "block" range

 

[Taiko the Waterbender]

Can you please give me an example when she bent Water from such a distance? Thanks!

 

[Migsel]

Air and Fire actually have cooldowns. They shoot blasts directly from themselves (excluding AirBlast, AirSuction, and AirStream). Water and Earth can choose a source right behind you or under you, making it a bit harder to dodge, especially when spammed.

 

[owlcool]

Sorry but Fire, Air, and Earth can even spamm more due the fact that Fire and Air don't require a source and that there is more earth then water in MC

Secondly, I think the selection range reduction is terrible. it's a giant part that makes WaterMani different from EarthBlast and it was never in the show that water benders needed to be in specific range to extract water

You are overestimating. Yes, shockwave is ridiculously spammable and should be changed. No other move is in earthbending is spammable.
Air is short ranged and you can only use one damaging airbending move at a time unless the configs are messed with, or they use combos on a somehow lag free server.
Fire, it isn't spammable in any way that is a problem. You can only use one fireblast at once, when Zhao could use 4 giant fireblasts at once, and most firebenders could use a barrage, it is less spammy in the plugin then it is in the show. If you have a problem with blaze as a waterbender, just stay on obsidion/iron/ice block, or watercamp as a lot of waterbenders do.


Now then, if you could show me an example of a waterbender using more then one watermanipulation at a time, that would be great.

Air and Fire actually have cooldowns. They shoot blasts directly from themselves (excluding AirBlast, AirSuction, and AirStream). Water and Earth can choose a source right behind you or under you, making it a bit harder to dodge, especially when spammed.

Earthbending actually has some cooldowns on some moves like earthblast, and shockwave should have a bigger cooldown so the configs are messed with to give it a bigger cooldown.

 

[owlcool]

Am I the only one here feeling that WaterManipulation is crappy as it is right now?

What (do I think) is wrong with WaterManipulation:

• Spammable;
• Weak.

Before starting throwing ashes at me because of the weak, listen to me.
We ALL know that Spambending in PK has been a trouble for too long, at least, to Waterbending. As said before for one of the members, "Water is the element of change. CHANGE. Not spam".

Solutions to reduce the spammability (if that's a word) of WaterManipulation:

• Diminuting the range of setting the move: I don't know if this is already configurable, but a Waterbender, right now, can throw WaterManipulations from a great distance, being this one of the tricks of the WaterCampers. The default should be three blocks radius from the player to bend WaterManipulation from a plant and six from a water block;
• After throwing four water blasts, if you launch a fifth, the first will drop, so you are only bending four bodies of Water at time.

This "weakness" I was referring is that at the moment, WaterManipulation's body is the same if it is used from a plant, water block or a bottle.
Solutions to get it better:

• If bent from a bottle, plant or snow layer block it should look like it is right now;
• If it is bent from a water block, it would be three blocks (at least) in lenght and it would do more one point of damage (half a heart).

Reasons to support these changes:

• We don't want an unfair plugin;
• As said before, spam has been a problem from too long;
• In the show, we never saw a normal Waterbender bending any percentage of Water from such a huge distance as in the plugin;
• In the show, we never saw a normal Waterbender bending this amount of WaterManipulations that in the plugin we bend;
• In the show, Waterbenders never shot the same amount of Water from a skin/bottle that they do from a body of Water, affecting its lenght. Examples:
  • Is isn't from the show, but you can get the idea:
    
  • Here, in the intro from The Legend of Korra
    
  • Extracting Water from the snow in a battle against some Equalists at the door of the Police Headquarters, "Book One: Air" from The Legend of Korra
    
    
    
  • "Book Two: Spirits" from The Legend of Korra, when Desna, Eska and her boyfriend and famous actor, Bolin, try to survive from an horde of Spirits at the Spirit World.
    

Thanks for reading. Feel free to suggest anything constructive.​

Most of this makes little sense to me. What are you asking for exactly? From what I hear, and from some edits, I personally believe a good variation on this would be to make waterbending able to use only two watermanipulations at once, like earthbending's earthblast, but to increase the damage. Iceblast could also get increased damage but decreased spam.

 

[Joeri]

You are overestimating. Yes, shockwave is ridiculously spammable and should be changed. No other move is in earthbending is spammable.
Air is short ranged and you can only use one damaging airbending move at a time unless the configs are messed with, or they use combos on a somehow lag free server.
Fire, it isn't spammable in any way that is a problem. You can only use one fireblast at once, when Zhao could use 4 giant fireblasts at once, and most firebenders could use a barrage, it is less spammy in the plugin then it is in the show. If you have a problem with blaze as a waterbender, just stay on obsidion/iron/ice block, or watercamp as a lot of waterbenders do.


Now then, if you could show me an example of a waterbender using more then one watermanipulation at a time, that would be great.

Earthbending actually has some cooldowns on some moves like earthblast, and shockwave should have a bigger cooldown so the configs are messed with to give it a bigger cooldown.

Expect that creating more then 1 watermanipulation is useless since minecraft has a hit cooldown. And lol did you even look at the config? EarthBlast doesn't have a cooldown at all

Sorry but i think you are inexperienced with bending. AirSwipe blocks and removes all incomming attacks and only has 1.5 second cooldown and doesn't require a source at all. Where as watermani has a way smaller hitbox, requires a source and has a 1 second cooldown

EarthBlast has an extrem methode of spamming but i'm not even gonna bother explaining

 

[Joeri]

Also. In TLA katara used 2 watermanipulations to knock hama off her feet.

 

[Finn_Bueno_]

Fire, it isn't spammable in any way that is a problem.

Although, blaze spammers stile exist...

 

[owlcool]

Although, blaze spammers stile exist...

Yeah, how much damage does blaze do? half a heart and burn damage? How is that comparable to water campers? Yeah, the only place that has the potential to be considered cannon in which case a waterbender used a torrent from a waterspout from a bottle is in fanfiction.

Expect that creating more then 1 watermanipulation is useless since minecraft has a hit cooldown. And lol did you even look at the config? EarthBlast doesn't have a cooldown at all

Sorry but i think you are inexperienced with bending. AirSwipe blocks and removes all incomming attacks and only has 1.5 second cooldown and doesn't require a source at all. Where as watermani has a way smaller hitbox, requires a source and has a 1 second cooldown

EarthBlast has an extrem methode of spamming but i'm not even gonna bother explaining

A waterbender has a 1.5 second cooldown for watermanipulation, put them underwater and they are immune to the close ranged airswipe that can't be performed underwater. Use octopusform if airswipe is *Such* a problem, or torrent. And would you mind looking at the dates we joined the forums? I joined a month after you joined.
WaterManipulation:
Enabled: true
Description: "To use, place your cursor over a waterbendable object and tap sneak (default: shift). Smoke will appear where you've selected, indicating the origin of your ability. After you have selected an origin, simply left-click in any direction and you will see your water spout off in that direction, slicing any creature in its path. If you look towards a creature when you use this ability, it will target that creature. A collision from Water Manipulation both knocks the target back and deals some damage. Alternatively, if you have the source selected and tap shift again, you will be able to control the water more directly."
Damage: 3.0
Range: 20
Speed: 35
Push: .3
EarthBlast:
Enabled: true
Description: "To use, place your cursor over an earthbendable object and tap sneak (default: shift). The object will temporarily turn to stone, indicating that you have it focused as the source for your ability. After you have selected an origin (you no longer need to be sneaking), simply left-click in any direction and you will see your object launch off in that direction, smashing into any creature in its path. If you look towards a creature when you use this ability, it will target that creature. A collision from Earth Blast both knocks the target back and deals some damage. You cannot have multiple of these abilities flying at the same time."
CanHitSelf: false
PrepareRange: 7
Range: 20
Speed: 35
Revert: true
Damage: 4
Push: 0.3
I take it that prepare range is the config that adds a cooldown for earthblast, and this config is from the projectkorra wiki page. http://projectkorra.wikia.com/wiki/Configuration Apparently from this there is no cooldown for watermanipulation.

 

[HadesDude]

Yeah, how much damage does blaze do? half a heart and burn damage? How is that comparable to water campers? Yeah, the only place that has the potential to be considered cannon in which case a waterbender used a torrent from a waterspout from a bottle is in fanfiction.

A waterbender has a 1.5 second cooldown for watermanipulation, put them underwater and they are immune to the close ranged airswipe that can't be performed underwater. Use octopusform if airswipe is *Such* a problem, or torrent.

Apparently you haven't fought any good firebenders because they should be able to do a decent amount of damage. Also, everyone is on a witch hunt for water camping but it's not even as bad as when an earthbender spams earthblast under your feet.

 

[owlcool]

Apparently you haven't fought any good firebenders because they should be able to do a decent amount of damage. Also, everyone is on a witch hunt for water camping but it's not even as bad as when an earthbender spams earthblast under your feet.

You shouldn't let a bender ever get that close if you have any kind of skill...If it is a airbender then they have the chance to use moves like airswipe, if it is a chiblocker they can do some damage on you, if it is a waterbender they can spam watermanipulation from a bottle/plants, etc. It isn't that bad...In damage terms but it is a prick move to firebenders, earthbenders, and airbenders simply because you are much faster and stronger there, and they are much weaker and slower there, do damage better then earthblast spam from far away, and to firebenders you hide underwater and swiftswim to avoid bending moves like combustion, if you are near a ocean you use torrent to destroy the firebender who has to stay on land or die, in which case more skilled water campers can pull you into water with torrent, earthbenders have to use raiseearth to have a hope of fighting against you, and even then you should be underwater most of the time in which case they should have died by then if you have any sort of skill, airbenders are just slow on water, only able to use airscooter until they have been damaged and then using airspout, and in that case they basically have a death sentence.

So basically, water camping is a scaled down version of a slow death by making someone play bingo until they die. What is the difference, lets look at the details. A slow death, it can be done if a waterbender is particularly brutal and uses surge to push a earthbender into the ocean. Boring, Ever swam across a ocean? Or until they die, Until they give up from the trolling water camper and just drown themselves. Why are people on a Witch hunt against ebola, I mean, I know it is a deadly disease and is painful and boring, buuut the common cold exists, maaaan.

 

[Joeri]

Apparently you haven't fought any good firebenders because they should be able to do a decent amount of damage. Also, everyone is on a witch hunt for water camping but it's not even as bad as when an earthbender spams earthblast under your feet.

Exactly, but people just don't know that is even possible or something

 

[Joeri]

Yeah, how much damage does blaze do? half a heart and burn damage? How is that comparable to water campers? Yeah, the only place that has the potential to be considered cannon in which case a waterbender used a torrent from a waterspout from a bottle is in fanfiction.

A waterbender has a 1.5 second cooldown for watermanipulation, put them underwater and they are immune to the close ranged airswipe that can't be performed underwater. Use octopusform if airswipe is *Such* a problem, or torrent. And would you mind looking at the dates we joined the forums? I joined a month after you joined.
WaterManipulation:
Enabled: true
Description: "To use, place your cursor over a waterbendable object and tap sneak (default: shift). Smoke will appear where you've selected, indicating the origin of your ability. After you have selected an origin, simply left-click in any direction and you will see your water spout off in that direction, slicing any creature in its path. If you look towards a creature when you use this ability, it will target that creature. A collision from Water Manipulation both knocks the target back and deals some damage. Alternatively, if you have the source selected and tap shift again, you will be able to control the water more directly."
Damage: 3.0
Range: 20
Speed: 35
Push: .3
EarthBlast:
Enabled: true
Description: "To use, place your cursor over an earthbendable object and tap sneak (default: shift). The object will temporarily turn to stone, indicating that you have it focused as the source for your ability. After you have selected an origin (you no longer need to be sneaking), simply left-click in any direction and you will see your object launch off in that direction, smashing into any creature in its path. If you look towards a creature when you use this ability, it will target that creature. A collision from Earth Blast both knocks the target back and deals some damage. You cannot have multiple of these abilities flying at the same time."
CanHitSelf: false
PrepareRange: 7
Range: 20
Speed: 35
Revert: true
Damage: 4
Push: 0.3
I take it that prepare range is the config that adds a cooldown for earthblast, and this config is from the projectkorra wiki page. http://projectkorra.wikia.com/wiki/Configuration Apparently from this there is no cooldown for watermanipulation.

Apperantly from my clear config there is

WaterManipulation:
Enabled: true
Description: 'To use, place your cursor over a waterbendable object and tap
sneak (default: shift). Smoke will appear where you''ve selected, indicating
the origin of your ability. After you have selected an origin, simply left-click
in any direction and you will see your water spout off in that direction,
slicing any creature in its path. If you look towards a creature when you
use this ability, it will target that creature. A collision from Water Manipulation
both knocks the target back and deals some damage. Alternatively, if you have
the source selected and tap shift again, you will be able to control the water
more directly.'

Damage: 4
Range: 20
Speed: 35
Push: 0.3
Cooldown: 1000

 

[Joeri]

You shouldn't let a bender ever get that close if you have any kind of skill...If it is a airbender then they have the chance to use moves like airswipe, if it is a chiblocker they can do some damage on you, if it is a waterbender they can spam watermanipulation from a bottle/plants, etc. It isn't that bad...In damage terms but it is a prick move to firebenders, earthbenders, and airbenders simply because you are much faster and stronger there, and they are much weaker and slower there, do damage better then earthblast spam from far away, and to firebenders you hide underwater and swiftswim to avoid bending moves like combustion, if you are near a ocean you use torrent to destroy the firebender who has to stay on land or die, in which case more skilled water campers can pull you into water with torrent, earthbenders have to use raiseearth to have a hope of fighting against you, and even then you should be underwater most of the time in which case they should have died by then if you have any sort of skill, airbenders are just slow on water, only able to use airscooter until they have been damaged and then using airspout, and in that case they basically have a death sentence.

So basically, water camping is a scaled down version of a slow death by making someone play bingo until they die. What is the difference, lets look at the details. A slow death, it can be done if a waterbender is particularly brutal and uses surge to push a earthbender into the ocean. Boring, Ever swam across a ocean? Or until they die, Until they give up from the trolling water camper and just drown themselves. Why are people on a Witch hunt against ebola, I mean, I know it is a deadly disease and is painful and boring, buuut the common cold exists, maaaan.

Omg there really is no counter for watercampers! oh wait, AirSuction, AirBlast, AirStream, FireJet to jet away before you land in the water, Catapult to jump out of the lake if you got in and not to notice that airswipe completly blocks all incomming watermanipulations, same for fireshield and not to mention you can just use fireblast to block watermanipulations aswell

 

[owlcool]

Omg there really is no counter for watercampers! oh wait, AirSuction, AirBlast, AirStream, FireJet to jet away before you land in the water, Catapult to jump out of the lake if you got in and not to notice that airswipe completly blocks all incomming watermanipulations, same for fireshield and not to mention you can just use fireblast to block watermanipulations aswell

Firejet doesn't work once you have touched water, and you will have needed to the second you have been torrented towards the water and been released of the torrent, and then catapult would require you to get to the bottom of a lake, in which case a earthbender is screwed, airswipe doesn't work underwater and won't work forever, fireblast doesn't work forever and you can't use it for forever because you can only use one fireblast at once. If the waterbender got you with torrent into water as a firebender, you are pretty much a goner no matter what you try to do because bending is so extremely debuffed in water. The only way I see your side of the argument is that you never tried to not watercamp and are a sole watercamper. Understandable with how long you have kept a waterbender avatar.

 

[Joeri]

Firejet doesn't work once you have touched water, and you will have needed to the second you have been torrented towards the water and been released of the torrent, and then catapult would require you to get to the bottom of a lake, in which case a earthbender is screwed, airswipe doesn't work underwater and won't work forever, fireblast doesn't work forever and you can't use it for forever because you can only use one fireblast at once. If the waterbender got you with torrent into water as a firebender, you are pretty much a goner no matter what you try to do because bending is so extremely debuffed in water. The only way I see your side of the argument is that you never tried to not watercamp and are a sole watercamper. Understandable with how long you have kept a waterbender avatar.

Expect that if you get caught by a torrent it's pretty much your own fault, you can dodge it by firejetting away

And no, i don't watercamp. but maybe its because the fact that i already play bending servers for over 2 years

And no, earthbenders can easily get to the bottom of a small river/lake unless this lake is 50blocks deep. A waterbender really can't do anything to prevent you from getting to the bottom of a lake and airbenders can just launch / airspout themselves out

 

[Finn_Bueno_]

A waterbender really can't do anything to prevent you from getting to the bottom of a lake

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