Spam Cooldown

[promancer]

It's actually not that hard for me- Fire has a decent amount of crowd control with WoF, Fireburst, and FireSpin... I'll use a charged fireblast two times in a row, maybe three at the max, then I'll switch to fireburst and WoF. You can say that I "spam", but I'm not using fireblast as my only offensive move...

But what about other elements. You immediantly chose the ELEMENT OF POWER. The one element that has almost every move as DoT. What about things like earth, or water, that dont have AoE DoT moves? Its not the spam that is the problem, its the fact that the only reason you want this added is simply because spamming is annoying.

There are easy ways to stop spammers.

 

[Finn_Bueno_]

As a simple fix, is it not possible we could all agree this could fit in rpg? and as an optional feature and super configurable by server owners? I think it would be cool if instead of cooldowns we have a "concentration" bar, like a mana bar in all rpg games.

Please dont do that for the sake of the plugin in general xd
This is a bending plugin, not some random magic plugin.

 

[Finn_Bueno_]

But what about other elements. You immediantly chose the ELEMENT OF POWER. The one element that has almost every move as DoT. What about things like earth, or water, that dont have AoE DoT moves? Its not the spam that is the problem, its the fact that the only reason you want this added is simply because spamming is annoying.

There are easy ways to stop spammers.

Even so, I don't think this is needed in PK either.

Can you get your facts right for once please?

 

[Janny]

So what are the 2 things that everyone in PK Plugin hates?
- Watercamping corrently being solved by the ambitious project of @Kiam McQuaid
- Move Spamming (?)
Maybe Watercampers and mainly Spammers will disagree with me xD

Right now @Kiam McQuaid is solving most of the reasons for Watercampers existence and unfortunately his solution may increase the amount Move Spammers at least from waterbenders. Therefore I decided to try to came up with an idea for solving the other problem Move Spamming

What I did come up with is something I decided to call "Spam Cooldown"
The basic idea is make spammeble moves, like pretty much every basic move (airswipe, watermanipulation, earthblast and fireblast), have a cooldown that is only activated after the move is used for a surtain amount of times.

Probably easier to understand by using exemples, I'm going to use watermanipulation for the exemples, since it is probably the most spammed due to watercampers and will be even easier to spam with the changes that are to came with waterbending:
Spam Cooldown activation: You use a watermanipulation, then you instantly use it a second time and then a third one. After the third time you use it the Spam Cooldown is activated and you will only be able to use it again after 60 seconds (1 minute).
How to avoid activating the Spam Cooldown: You use a watermanipulation, then you instantly use it a second time and then you need to stop using the move for around 15 seconds, you can use other moves during this time, they won't count to activate Spam Cooldown, after the 15 seconds pass you can freely use watermanipulation twice again without activating the Spam Cooldown.

This is how Spam Cooldown would work, every time that I mensioned is configurable by the server, as well as the amount of times you can do a certain move consecutively.

EDIT: I´m thinking of:
Airswipe - 5 times (just because airbender have lack of offensive moves)
Watermanipulation - 4 times
Earthblast - 4 times
FireBlast - 4 times
(not sure though)

The idea of using the Spam Cooldown instead of the normal cooldown is that this way easy basic move can be used 2 or 3 time consecutively as they should (without needing to wait between every use), but this way players that rely too much on using the same move again and again and again... will be penalized not being able to use them for quite a while...

I REALLY don't like this idea...

 

[SuperBower118]

But what about other elements. You immediantly chose the ELEMENT OF POWER. The one element that has almost every move as DoT. What about things like earth, or water, that dont have AoE DoT moves? Its not the spam that is the problem, its the fact that the only reason you want this added is simply because spamming is annoying.

There are easy ways to stop spammers.

1): Torrent has the potential to hit multiple people if you can aim it right.
2): Earth can easily take out people by spamming earthblast under them if they can get close
3): Earth has shockwave to seperate people, and earthsmash to deal good damage and knockback.
4): Spam isn't only annoying, I personally find it a cheap way of killing people. If a person starts spamming me, however, I'll spam them.
5): Air has airburst and airsweep.
6): So tell me how you can stop watermanip spammers without spamming them? You can try to redirect the manips, okay, but the spammer can always use a watermanip from a different source to throw you off, that, and he can change to torrent and torrent spam you.

 

[promancer]

1): Torrent has the potential to hit multiple people if you can aim it right.
2): Earth can easily take out people by spamming earthblast under them if they can get close
3): Earth has shockwave to seperate people, and earthsmash to deal good damage and knockback.
4): Spam isn't only annoying, I personally find it a cheap way of killing people. If a person starts spamming me, however, I'll spam them.
5): Air has airburst and airsweep.
6): So tell me how you can stop watermanip spammers without spamming them? You can try to redirect the manips, okay, but the spammer can always use a watermanip from a different source to throw you off, that, and he can change to torrent and torrent spam you.

1) This applies to almost every move
2) Airshield, and configurable, why would you let someone get that close?
3) Configurable and earthsmash isn't always enabled
4) Just opinions
5) Air has been established as a knockback element, and airsweep is the only combo that does dmg
6) Torrent freeze, surge shield, drawing them away from a source... then more opinions.

Please stop following me from thread to thread. I like your opinions but you're bothersome.

 

[promancer]

Can you get your facts right for once please?

Referring to me or super?

 

[6tijn]

It's a nice suggestion but I don't know how it would turn out when it would get added. In some situations, a waterbender just Has to 'spam'. When there are very few water sources near you, how are you going to defeat anyone if you can't shoot 5 watermanips in a row concidering only a few will hit the target and most will be blocked by other moves? The best way to get rid of spammers is adding diversity and making non spamming as effective as spamming.
I really appreciate suggestions against spamming, like this one, but to me it seems hard if not almost impossible to find a perfect balance between nerfing spamming but still giving benders enough chances and opportunities to use moves like watermanip a few times in a row.

That a bender uses watermanip let's say 5 times in a row it doesn't mean it has to be nerfed. Myself I mained water, and I like how much strategy you need to be able to defeat someone in a fight using watermanip as a main move. Within this watermanip spam, there is so much strategy, positioning skills, speed, agiloty needed which makes it fun and tactical. Ofcourse using a diversity of moves is better to use.

I'm not saying spamming isnt a problem, I just don't see how to nerf spamming effectly.

Thanks for reading, I come in peace



One thing



IT ARENT ONLY THE WATER BENDERS THAT CAMP Earth and Fire campers can be annoying too, if not worse. xD

 

[SuperBower118]

1) This applies to almost every move
2) Airshield, and configurable, why would you let someone get that close?
3) Configurable and earthsmash isn't always enabled
4) Just opinions
5) Air has been established as a knockback element, and airsweep is the only combo that does dmg
6) Torrent freeze, surge shield, drawing them away from a source... then more opinions.

Please stop following me from thread to thread. I like your opinions but you're bothersome.

1) If it applies to almost every move then why did you point out the fact that a lot of fire's moves have AoE?
2) Air's the element as knockback, as you stated in point 5. Of course airbenders would have an easier time preventing earthbenders from getting close, but the rest of them, not so much.
3) What do you mean, configurable? Even if the owner disables the knockback entirely, shockwave is still an AoE. Also, point 1.
4)
5) Wall. Damage. While it is a bit unreliable at times, it can still take a solid 2 - 7 hearts.
6) Torrent freeze can stop spam, sure, maybe for a moment, but I suppose it can knock people off their game a bit. People can watermanip, or torrent around your surge shield. Drawing them away from a source can work, but that mainly works for air.

Also, it's not my fault that you make statements that I strongly disagree with.

 

[Matt]

Why is this so argumentative? Some of you have an ego bigger than Donald Trump

I think it would be cool as an optional configuration option thing to RPG sort of like a burn bar. I’m pretty sure it's canon too as the benders in the show seemed quite drained after bending some huge amounts of their element

As I see it though there would be a separate config file where you would set the amount of burn each move used, and the total amount of burn a player has (addons included)

If you disagree say why, don't just say "OMG I DISAGREE THIS SUCKS"

<3 you all
-Matt

 

[promancer]

1) If it applies to almost every move then why did you point out the fact that a lot of fire's moves have AoE?
2) Air's the element as knockback, as you stated in point 5. Of course airbenders would have an easier time preventing earthbenders from getting close, but the rest of them, not so much.
3) What do you mean, configurable? Even if the owner disables the knockback entirely, shockwave is still an AoE. Also, point 1.
4)
5) Wall. Damage. While it is a bit unreliable at times, it can still take a solid 2 - 7 hearts.
6) Torrent freeze can stop spam, sure, maybe for a moment, but I suppose it can knock people off their game a bit. People can watermanip, or torrent around your surge shield. Drawing them away from a source can work, but that mainly works for air.

Also, it's not my fault that you make statements that I strongly disagree with.

1) Because fire also has DoT added to the AoE. This makes it adept for dealing with them, as most 'campers' stay in one area, making it relatively easy to tag them with a large DoT move like fireburst.
2) Surge, fireburst, airblast/burst, smokescreen/paralyze, fireburst/fireblast... I didnt say that you needed knockback, just to keep people away.
3) Shockwave doesn't go over cobble, obby, and a assortment of other blocks. Stop victimizing fire, it has power, mobility, and DoT. (Just to clarify, every one of your comments has avoided fire being added to this spamming nerf)
5) Please, do tell one air combo that does walldmg. Not to mention, walldmg requires, you guessed it, a wall. If you're battling in an open arena, you could just fly to the ground or use firejet, or airspout, or eartharmor, or frostbreath the ground if you're fast enough. This doesn't always apply to every situation though. Not to mention, that time when it's a "bit" unreliable, is actually about 50% give or take. Ive actually monitored it.
6) Not really... If you draw an airbender into a closed room, they're easy prey. You draw fire into the water, they're done. You draw earth into a cobble room, they might aswell give, cause they're finished. You take a waterbender and put them in a high place, see how long they last. Chi just needs to be kept at a distance to be handled. Again, just opinions.

It's not that you strongly disagree with me, but you seem to be taking time to argue against any if not everything I state across threads. If you're looking to start arguments, do yourself a favor and go back and look at pk's rule for that. Threads are meant to give opinions on the person's idea and/or improve upon it.

 

[SuperBower118]

1) Because fire also has DoT added to the AoE. This makes it adept for dealing with them, as most 'campers' stay in one area, making it relatively easy to tag them with a large DoT move like fireburst.
2) Surge, fireburst, airblast/burst, smokescreen/paralyze, fireburst/fireblast... I didnt say that you needed knockback, just to keep people away.
3) Shockwave doesn't go over cobble, obby, and a assortment of other blocks. Stop victimizing fire, it has power, mobility, and DoT. (Just to clarify, every one of your comments has avoided fire being added to this spamming nerf)
5) Please, do tell one air combo that does walldmg. Not to mention, walldmg requires, you guessed it, a wall. If you're battling in an open arena, you could just fly to the ground or use firejet, or airspout, or eartharmor, or frostbreath the ground if you're fast enough. This doesn't always apply to every situation though. Not to mention, that time when it's a "bit" unreliable, is actually about 50% give or take. Ive actually monitored it.
6) Not really... If you draw an airbender into a closed room, they're easy prey. You draw fire into the water, they're done. You draw earth into a cobble room, they might aswell give, cause they're finished. You take a waterbender and put them in a high place, see how long they last. Chi just needs to be kept at a distance to be handled. Again, just opinions.

It's not that you strongly disagree with me, but you seem to be taking time to argue against any if not everything I state across threads. If you're looking to start arguments, do yourself a favor and go back and look at pk's rule for that. Threads are meant to give opinions on the person's idea and/or improve upon it.

I'm taking time to argue because if I'm gonna argue back, I'm gonna do it properly. I'm not trying to start arguments, I'm stating my opinion on either the thread, or on another person's statements on a thread. The reason why I'm constantly replying back is because with pretty much every counter statement you through, I'll disagree with it. Again, not my fault or your fault that we have different views on bending.

1) Don't know what type of waterspouters you've faced, but if they see my charging up a move, they'll generally back away, lower down a bit, and start attacking me while I'm charging.
2) Earth can generally stonewall attacks with raiseearth or earthgrabbing themselves. (At least against fire attacks)
3) You're not generally going to land on cobble if you're an earthbender. If there's a lot of cobble in your area, you're generally at a disadvantage for obvious reasons. Wanna know why I victimize fire? I'll give you a briefing on it, cause I could most likely make a thread on this myself. Waterbenders can just spam the shit out of surge shield against fire if you get them low. Combined with spamming surge if you get anywhere near them when they're low, and if they're near water, swift swimming away to a safe haven and healingwaters... I'm not going to get into a waterbender's offense, cause that'd take too long. Earthbenders, I feel bad for them at times, actually. Firebenders generally can take care of earth from a distance. Then EarthSmash came in... Airbenders did need airsweep, but the spam that they pull off is just... tremendous...
5) Walldamage requires a wall? Then tell me why I'll get killed with it when I'm at 7 hearts, get hit by an airburst, and I firejet safely to the ground, yet I die. "WhiteXShadow was thrown down by Airbender's Airburst' From what I've heard from another person, this option is configurable. I do understand, however, if this is a bug. Also, frostbreath doesn't really count since it's an addon
6) I don't know any earthbenders that'll walk or fall into a cobbleroom unless they're pushed in there by someone. Even then, they can earthgrab themselves. Airbenders really aren't as easy as you think in closed rooms because of how ridiculous airblast jump is. If it's a Firebender, airshield if you feel you can't dodge a fire move. Otherwise, you can have a blast spamming airswipe/sweep because it'll be decently hard to dodge one of those moves (Which is, in my opinion, why airswipe/sweep spam is one of the worst, because they're generally hard to avoid. That's just my experience and opinion, though)
If you want to continue this, then take this to a conversation. I didn't spend as much time on this reply because I plan on this to be taken to a conversation. And just as a clarification once more, I'm not trying to start arguments

 

[promancer]

I'm taking time to argue because if I'm gonna argue back, I'm gonna do it properly. I'm not trying to start arguments, I'm stating my opinion on either the thread, or on another person's statements on a thread. The reason why I'm constantly replying back is because with pretty much every counter statement you through, I'll disagree with it. Again, not my fault or your fault that we have different views on bending.

1) Don't know what type of waterspouters you've faced, but if they see my charging up a move, they'll generally back away, lower down a bit, and start attacking me while I'm charging.
2) Earth can generally stonewall attacks with raiseearth or earthgrabbing themselves. (At least against fire attacks)
3) You're not generally going to land on cobble if you're an earthbender. If there's a lot of cobble in your area, you're generally at a disadvantage for obvious reasons. Wanna know why I victimize fire? I'll give you a briefing on it, cause I could most likely make a thread on this myself. Waterbenders can just spam the shit out of surge shield against fire if you get them low. Combined with spamming surge if you get anywhere near them when they're low, and if they're near water, swift swimming away to a safe haven and healingwaters... I'm not going to get into a waterbender's offense, cause that'd take too long. Earthbenders, I feel bad for them at times, actually. Firebenders generally can take care of earth from a distance. Then EarthSmash came in... Airbenders did need airsweep, but the spam that they pull off is just... tremendous...
5) Walldamage requires a wall? Then tell me why I'll get killed with it when I'm at 7 hearts, get hit by an airburst, and I firejet safely to the ground, yet I die. "WhiteXShadow was thrown down by Airbender's Airburst' From what I've heard from another person, this option is configurable. I do understand, however, if this is a bug. Also, frostbreath doesn't really count since it's an addon
6) I don't know any earthbenders that'll walk or fall into a cobbleroom unless they're pushed in there by someone. Even then, they can earthgrab themselves. Airbenders really aren't as easy as you think in closed rooms because of how ridiculous airblast jump is. If it's a Firebender, airshield if you feel you can't dodge a fire move. Otherwise, you can have a blast spamming airswipe/sweep because it'll be decently hard to dodge one of those moves (Which is, in my opinion, why airswipe/sweep spam is one of the worst, because they're generally hard to avoid. That's just my experience and opinion, though)
If you want to continue this, then take this to a conversation. I didn't spend as much time on this reply because I plan on this to be taken to a conversation. And just as a clarification once more, I'm not trying to start arguments

1) Switch to fireblast as soon as they get low.

2) This is just straight biased. Ofc fire isnt going to go through solid stone. Thats, illogical, not canon, and unneeded. This is also the defencive element, that sucks up damage and waits for the right time to strike.

3) Situational. Ive literally had times when a firebender wouldnt even give me time to attack because of all the combos/moves they could perform with a couple clicks. Fire doesn't need victimizing, as it is the element of power. I agree that how earthsmash works doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Again, more situational examples that dont apply to everywhere. Nice, hypocricy. Talks about water being unfair, and then proceeds to say how bad he feels about exploiting his abilities to beat earthbenders... Like I said before, water should have an advantage in its element. Air has mobility and small attacks. Think death from a thousand tiny cuts and bruises. It's not strong, but its very precise. Spam is completely reliant on cooldowns setup. It's kindof hard not to spam and fight fair when you want to avoid one hitting with walldmg, and try to fight normal with few actual moves inflicting damage.

5) Oh, I completely agree with you with air. Im not sure if this is a bug or not, but ive had full health and iron armor, been airbursted onto the ground, then caught my self with airspout, proceeded to be one shotted by walldmg when i got off. It would be nice to have some type of way to configure walldmg's dmg output and/or speed radius/force needed to actually dmg someone. Right now, walldamage is kind of glitchy. Sometimes you'll negate the persons falldmg and then not even inflict walldmg.

6) Blaze, blaze, blaze. For the airbender ofc. Airswipe is set to do one heart, and have a cooldown of one second. This is massively different from fire, which does the same dmg, but has DoT which takes about 2-3 hearts. Earthblast, which is set to about 2 hearts, with a cooldown of about .5 seconds, and watermanip, which is limited by the source, but does 1.5 hearts and has a cooldown of .5 seconds.

Ive been mainly trying to give advice for your situational experience examples. I'd much like to get back to a conversation.
Now, why I think this isn't needed.
Spamming is mostly used with moves like airswipe or watermanipulation and the other basic moves. The thing is though, these moves are suppose to be used for this. They're suppose to have short cooldowns. Basic moves shouldn't have a limit, nor should they be toggled by an addition that already has a solution (cooldowns are configurable). Plus, this helps in strategy. When you're waiting for a long distance or high damage move's cooldown to finish, you use basic moves with a mix of others. Spamming is a strategy aswell, and can normally be contradicted with long range moves.

So there, spamming is adjustable, managable, easily blocked and defeated with strategy, and just makes you easier to kill. Personally, I love it when people constantly spam. It just makes it easier for the people with rational thought during a battle to destroy them.