Suggestion Bending System & Scrolls

[MeskenasBoii]

To be straight honest, I don't like how you bend in this mod. Multiple reasons:
1. Defaults are odd (the way you have to stretch your fingers to Z and V in mr fantastic means to cycle through elements, that makes it impossible to move your character and bend)
2. Redefine how bending should activate and the controls.
3. Less of variety in scrolls and no "discovery" aspect which rather comes in unlocking.

1. To start off, I think controls should be kept to a minimum and defaults to be more reasonable set. Defaults are odd, as you have strech your fingers to, let's say Z and V in mr fantastic means to cycle through elements, that makes it impossible to move your character and bend simultaniously. I dunno If it just due to my small keyboard, but I think it applies to the rest: you have to abandon your WASD/Arrow keys to cycle bending elements If you happen to wield more than one bending, which imo this kind of setup doesn't flow with combat. And I know you can argue “If you don’t like it, go under options to change the controls”, but Defaults are such a standard that at the very least must be met to affordance-friendly standard and anybody gonna notice a badly set-up right away. You may had as well not bother having any concern and just had assigned the player to unwillingly bend for example with A and S to be left&right cycling keys, W for Use Bending, A for Skils menu. Point is, it would be hard to get used for newplayers to bending elements due to poor controls and would much frustating in figuring out for themselves as the more elements they start obtaining, the more keys it would take to assign ability for and harder would be to figure out which one would inventive choice.

Solution: Instead, I would propose incorporating the cycling feature to one key (the reason and the method for that will be described below) as B, while having use bending feature be represented by V. This way, you wouldn't lose the control to move around your playable while your thumb is resting on either top of the following keys that are next to each other.

2. I think use bending should adapt to a new mechanics, while cycling takes over the radial dial. I do think it would feel more natural, affordance-friendly If you had to hold my new proposed key to trigger and keep bending active, while doing the respective actions for the corresponding abilities:
(Hold V) - Jump to airjump.
(Hold V) - Sneak to wall/airbubble/iceburst.
(Hold V) - Sprint to slipstream/waterskate.
(Hold V) - Punch to waterarch/mineblocks/firearch/lightning arc/airgust; additionally hold and sweep the mouse to airblade (or could come in RMB).
(Hold V) - RMB a block to waterbubble/pickupblock/lightfire/airblade/iceprison/sandprison/explosive pillar.
(Hold V) - Punch&RMB to wave/ravine/flamethrower/cloudburst.
(Hold V) - MMB to heal/restore/fireball/lightning redirection/explosion
(Hold V) - Sweep the mouse while holding LMB to airblade.
(Hold V) - RMB to airshield.

Just know, that changes to this control will still be manually changeable in the skill menu. However, these default one's would be realistic as to how bending principally works by correlating/synching-in with player's physical moves, and what is better way to do that then to tie in with the vanilla in-game player actions.

3. I think it would be cooler If instead of scrolls being board as distinguished by differen bending arts, they could instead come in a form of abilities. On adventure, you would have to search in dungeons/templates for scrolls that may spawn for a random ability for you to learn. At the start of the game, you won't be able to access the skill display menu until you discover a scroll for a particular ability and read it (right click the found in question ability scroll). And thus, this adds a fun trip to the gameplay of having to gather puzzle pieces to make the skill menu display complete. Or the skill menu display could be not accesible from get-go, but you could only open it once you got the universal scroll, which either comes in a craftable form after assembling all the scroll pieces in the crafting grid or only can be find through a pregenerated chest and form there you could glue to it more

 

[FavouriteDragon]

To be straight honest, I don't like how you bend in this mod. Multiple reasons:
1. Defaults are odd (the way you have to stretch your fingers to Z and V in mr fantastic means to cycle through elements, that makes it impossible to move your character and bend)
2. Redefine how bending should activate and the controls.
3. Less of variety in scrolls and no "discovery" aspect which rather comes in unlocking.

1. To start off, I think controls should be kept to a minimum and defaults to be more reasonable set. Defaults are odd, as you have strech your fingers to, let's say Z and V in mr fantastic means to cycle through elements, that makes it impossible to move your character and bend simultaniously. I dunno If it just due to my small keyboard, but I think it applies to the rest: you have to abandon your WASD/Arrow keys to cycle bending elements If you happen to wield more than one bending, which imo this kind of setup doesn't flow with combat. And I know you can argue “If you don’t like it, go under options to change the controls”, but Defaults are such a standard that at the very least must be met to affordance-friendly standard and anybody gonna notice a badly set-up right away. You may had as well not bother having any concern and just had assigned the player to unwillingly bend for example with A and S to be left&right cycling keys, W for Use Bending, A for Skils menu. Point is, it would be hard to get used for newplayers to bending elements due to poor controls and would much frustating in figuring out for themselves as the more elements they start obtaining, the more keys it would take to assign ability for and harder would be to figure out which one would inventive choice.

Solution: Instead, I would propose incorporating the cycling feature to one key (the reason and the method for that will be described below) as B, while having use bending feature be represented by V. This way, you wouldn't lose the control to move around your playable while your thumb is resting on either top of the following keys that are next to each other.

2. I think use bending should adapt to a new mechanics, while cycling takes over the radial dial. I do think it would feel more natural, affordance-friendly If you had to hold my new proposed key to trigger and keep bending active, while doing the respective actions for the corresponding abilities:
(Hold V) - Jump to airjump.
(Hold V) - Sneak to wall/airbubble/iceburst.
(Hold V) - Sprint to slipstream/waterskate.
(Hold V) - Punch to waterarch/mineblocks/firearch/lightning arc/airgust; additionally hold and sweep the mouse to airblade (or could come in RMB).
(Hold V) - RMB a block to waterbubble/pickupblock/lightfire/airblade/iceprison/sandprison/explosive pillar.
(Hold V) - Punch&RMB to wave/ravine/flamethrower/cloudburst.
(Hold V) - MMB to heal/restore/fireball/lightning redirection/explosion
(Hold V) - Sweep the mouse while holding LMB to airblade.
(Hold V) - RMB to airshield.

Just know, that changes to this control will still be manually changeable in the skill menu. However, these default one's would be realistic as to how bending principally works by correlating/synching-in with player's physical moves, and what is better way to do that then to tie in with the vanilla in-game player actions.

3. I think it would be cooler If instead of scrolls being board as distinguished by differen bending arts, they could instead come in a form of abilities. On adventure, you would have to search in dungeons/templates for scrolls that may spawn for a random ability for you to learn. At the start of the game, you won't be able to access the skill display menu until you discover a scroll for a particular ability and read it (right click the found in question ability scroll). And thus, this adds a fun trip to the gameplay of having to gather puzzle pieces to make the skill menu display complete. Or the skill menu display could be not accesible from get-go, but you could only open it once you got the universal scroll, which either comes in a craftable form after assembling all the scroll pieces in the crafting grid or only can be find through a pregenerated chest and form there you could glue to it more

Ok- I appreciate the effort you've put into this, but the short answer is no.

1)No for a couple of reasons
-You can re-keybind it (I know you've already said that that's an argument, and provided points against it, but still. You can keyind it.
-Let's say you have 5 elements: water, fire, air, earth, and combustion. You want to get to water, but you cycle too far by one and go to fire instead of water. Now you have to cycle 4 more times to get back to water, wasting precious time.
-It would mean a redo of the radial menu system, and I'm unwilling to undo years of Crows' hard work.
-Imo, it's still easy to bend and move if you have 1 or two elements. If you have more, just keybind your most important moves.
-A lot of work, taking away time from the next update.

2) No
-Complete overhaul of current ability system- it would effectively get rid of the radial menu.
-Makes it way more complicated and non beginner-friendly
-Makes it like the plugin. I'll say this again: this isn't the plugin, it's the mod. They're totally different, with their internal code and systems. This isn't the plugin and never will be.
-I'm planning on adding at least 16 abilities for each element. Got an idea of how to implement different controls for each ability? With a radial menu, I can make it so that you can customise which abilities go on it.
-So many textures and so many hours wasted.
-A lot of work, taking away time from the next update.

3) No
-Complete overhaul of the skill menu and scroll system. While I am planning a complete overhaul, this is not the direction I'm going to take it. I want a skill tree.
-Makes it less friendly for beginners, making it a mid/lategame thingwhen you acquire it, let alone master abilities.
-So. Many. Scrolls. I'm not taking away precious time from other updates to make lots of ability-specific scrolls. Stronger abilites with require more scrolls and other things in the next update, meaning the need for ability-sepcific scrolls to stop people getting super-powerful abilities is unnecessary.

 

[MeskenasBoii]

Thank for an elaborate response as well. Though I have to disagree to some parts:

-Let's say you have 5 elements: water, fire, air, earth, and combustion. You want to get to water, but you cycle too far by one and go to fire instead of water. Now you have to cycle 4 more times to get back to water, wasting precious time.

Not when it would use radial dial menu, because that's what essentially use bending ui uses and nobody complaints about that.

-Imo, it's still easy to bend and move if you have 1 or two elements. If you have more, just keybind your most important moves.

You will eventually run out of practical keys to bind every ability as time progresses with more elements and skills unlocked through out the bender's adventure way.

-Makes it way more complicated and non beginner-friendly

I bet to differ, but alright.

-Makes it like the plugin. I'll say this again: this isn't the plugin, it's the mod. They're totally different, with their internal code and systems. This isn't the plugin and never will be.

While I do admit to being guilty of using the PK, the plugin as a benchmark for having great bending control scheme mechanics, but really it is just that. Although I haven't asked a lot of people, I believe it will get the same response from that I'm not the only one prefers it over what the mod offers. Every time when I tried to think about a mod that would incorporate and recreate bending experience, I always imagined it having a much BETTER control scheme than the plugin has, which in no ways it being similar is to what I had in mind. Try asking the players who are playing the mod to try out the plugin version of this magic system, and by comparing consult which one the system their prefer: the plugin's slot bindable mechanics or the mods key-to-key with a radial dial? I really wonder what people's thoughts are on this.

-A lot of work, taking away time from the next update.

By no means I was suggesting to work on the next upcoming update. Could be at any point, far or soon, in the future. However the developers decide. Whether the development team decides to focus their attention on this or not remains to be seen.

-So. Many. Scrolls. I'm not taking away precious time from other updates to make lots of ability-specific scrolls. Stronger abilites with require more scrolls and other things in the next update, meaning the need for ability-sepcific scrolls to stop people getting super-powerful abilities is unnecessary.

Okay that's fine - good point.

 

[FavouriteDragon]

Thank for an elaborate response as well. Though I have to disagree to some parts:

Not when it would use radial dial menu, because that's what essentially use bending ui uses and nobody complaints about that.

You will eventually run out of practical keys to bind every ability as time progresses with more elements and skills unlocked through out the bender's adventure way.



I bet to differ, but alright.

While I do admit to being guilty of using the PK, the plugin as a benchmark for having great bending control scheme mechanics, but really it is just that. Although I haven't asked a lot of people, I believe it will get the same response from that I'm not the only one prefers it over what the mod offers. Every time when I tried to think about a mod that would incorporate and recreate bending experience, I always imagined it having a much BETTER control scheme than the plugin has, which in no ways it being similar is to what I had in mind. Try asking the players who are playing the mod to try out the plugin version of this magic system, and by comparing consult which one the system their prefer: the plugin's slot bindable mechanics or the mods key-to-key with a radial dial? I really wonder what people's thoughts are on this.


By no means I was suggesting to work on the next upcoming update. Could be at any point, far or soon, in the future. However the developers decide. Whether the development team decides to focus their attention on this or not remains to be seen.


Okay that's fine - good point.

Ok I'll respond to these in order-

1) That would make it easier to cycle, but when we add more than 8 elements, it'll have to be completely changed again.

2) That is true, but you'll also run out of practical actions if we go with what you suggested. It also makes the internal structure of the mod less understandable, harder to teach to others, and more complicated. Ex: for the 16th ability of each element, do RMB RMB LMB Space

3) This may be different for others, but for me, figuring out all of PK's commands and actions took forever. Making it a radial menu means it's easier to understand and use for beginners. Of course, if you've mastered the plugin, it's effortless to bend.

4) I always found slot binding annoying, especially if I forgot to move items out of my inventory. However as all of the PK community likes slot binding, I'm considering adding it as UI option in one of the final updates. I've just asked the mod discord, and am waiting to see the responses.

5) Ok. But still, I'm really not willing to revamp everything; adding a skill tree will be hard enough. I'm planning on making options for the skill tree system as well: you can use the current system, or the skill tree system. This will probably be added in the next update.

 

[MeskenasBoii]

1) That would make it easier to cycle, but when we add more than 8 elements, it'll have to be completely changed again.

Perhaps all sub-elements could be added in there in advance while their skills in development? You know, at the start but with no skills so later you could add onto those the skills that'll be made in far future.

2) That is true, but you'll also run out of practical actions if we go with what you suggested. It also makes the internal structure of the mod less understandable, harder to teach to others, and more complicated. Ex: for the 16th ability of each element, do RMB RMB LMB Space

True. Ok

3) This may be different for others, but for me, figuring out all of PK's commands and actions took forever. Making it a radial menu means it's easier to understand and use for beginners. Of course, if you've mastered the plugin, it's effortless to bend.

True. Pk's way of teaching commands is not easy and dummy-friendly, I agree on that. Though with the mod, perhaps (as one guy share this idea) another bar could be created just below the item hotbar that when you're holding V key you could scroll through that second bar that is only dedicated for bending abilities and nothing else (can't put items on it or anything vanilla related, and those slots could have ability icons or whatever).

4) I always found slot binding annoying, especially if I forgot to move items out of my inventory. However as all of the PK community likes slot binding, I'm considering adding it as UI option in one of the final updates. I've just asked the mod discord, and am waiting to see the responses.

Yup, I agree. Though look at my remark/point above with a solution idea I gave (don't know If you will like it).

5) Ok. But still, I'm really not willing to revamp everything; adding a skill tree will be hard enough. I'm planning on making options for the skill tree system as well: you can use the current system, or the skill tree system. This will probably be added in the next update.

Ok. No argument here.

 

[FavouriteDragon]

Perhaps all sub-elements could be added in there in advance while their skills in development? You know, at the start but with no skills so later you could add onto those the skills that'll be made in far future.


True. Ok


True. Pk's way of teaching commands is not easy and dummy-friendly, I agree on that. Though with the mod, perhaps (as one guy share this idea) another bar could be created just below the item hotbar that when you're holding V key you could scroll through that second bar that is only dedicated for bending abilities and nothing else (can't put items on it or anything vanilla related, and those slots could have ability icons or whatever).


Yup, I agree. Though look at my remark/point above with a solution idea I gave (don't know If you will like it).


Ok. No argument here.

Actually, that's a good idea! I'll do that now.
So metal, lava, healing, blood, plant, and spiritual, right? (We already have all the others)