Denied Balancing Earthgrab with Relation to Waterbenders

[Tidal_Force]

I've already prepared myself for the deluge of negative comments and disagreements. However, I feel this needs to be suggested. So, listen up, and feel free to voice disagreement.
___________________________
I've come to the conclusion that earthgrab is entirely too powerful, mostly against water benders. The reason that it is is because of the fact that, without frostbreath, there is no way to get out other than by breaking the blocks; by that time, you would be dead from either lava flow, earth blast, etc. Waterbenders end up HAVING to camp in water, because the minute they come on land they are done for. This ends up making for a very boring fight, and the victor is decided only by who spams basic abilities (watermanipulation and earthblast) faster. Earthbenders might complain that octopusform when used through ice is overpowered, but the fact remains that octopusform first of all creates orifices in the ice for the earthbender to escape, and secondly, the waterbender cannot hit the earthbender in the ice with the exception of octopusform or a glitch with waterarms, which in any case isn't a guaranteed death. Here are some changes which might improve survivability and make earthgrab more balanced.
___________________________

1. Earthblast cannot be used from the ground inside the earthgrab. (The ground inside would turn to cobblestone).

This might seem like a major nerf, but where in the show did you see an earthbender use the ground under a trapped benders feet to make an earthblast. The fact is, physics would prevent the earth from gaining momentum, and the blocks not in the middle would be supporting the earthgrab itself; if one was taken out the whole earthgrab would collapse.
___________________________

2. Earthgrab would disappear after 7 or so seconds.

This would make earthgrab first of all cause less grief in arenas, and second of all give it the purpose of a hindrance to a bender rather than a deathtrap.
___________________________

3. Make earthgrab have a much longer default cool down.

This would give benders time to get to snow or an unearthgrabable spot, so that they can actually fight the earthbender.
___________________________

4. Earthgrab will have a "step" made of cobblestone so the bender can run out.

This makes it slightly easier to get out of earthgrab, especially since waterwave doesn't work while inside it when you use bottles.
___________________________

Alright, so those are my ideas on making earthgrab less op. Tell me what you think.

 

[nutterbutter]

Short answer: no.

Long answer: no.

JK xD

But seriously, I don't think this is needed. I play on 5+ servers and the earthbenders almost never do this. And when they do, escape is easy, you just need reflexes instead of sitting there like a noob. Either have bottles/buckets with you, or frostbreath then use the snowsource to waterspout away. Plus, waterbenders SHOULD be by water, it's where they're most powerful, so giving them an incentive when fighting earth to stay to their watersource, it's logical. It's like telling earth to fight in the water, it makes no sense.

Still nice suggestion though

 

[Tidal_Force]

Short answer: no.

Long answer: no.

JK xD

But seriously, I don't think this is needed. I play on 5+ servers and the earthbenders almost never do this. And when they do, escape is easy, you just need reflexes instead of sitting there like a noob. Either have bottles/buckets with you, or frostbreath then use the snowsource to waterspout away. Plus, waterbenders SHOULD be by water, it's where they're most powerful, so giving them an incentive when fighting earth to stay to their watersource, it's logical. It's like telling earth to fight in the water, it makes no sense.

Still nice suggestion though

Thanks for your input. However, I explicitly stated that this suggestion retained validity without frostbreath. Additionally, many arenas do not allow water bottles and I've never heard of any that allow waterbuckets. And, I would just like to point out that earthsmash "eagledrops" nullify staying close to the water.

 

[nutterbutter]

Thanks for your input. However, I explicitly stated that this suggestion retained validity without frostbreath. Additionally, many arenas do not allow water bottles and I've never heard of any that allow waterbuckets. And, I would just like to point out that earthsmash "eagledrops" nullify staying close to the water.

Well maybe the server you play on clears inventory, but I literally have over 5 servers that I play on and they ALL allow you to keep inventory in arena. So just bring waterbuckets to create a source, bottles (either bring them or they usually have a sign) or frostbreath is always nice, though some servers dont allow you to draw source from frostbreath :c

But yeah, it's an okay idea!

 

[Pickle9775]

Not only to many servers allow water bottles in the arenas, but arenas are not the focus of the plugin.

 

[FearlessPie121]

I've already prepared myself for the deluge of negative comments and disagreements. However, I feel this needs to be suggested. So, listen up, and feel free to voice disagreement.
___________________________
I've come to the conclusion that earthgrab is entirely too powerful, mostly against water benders. The reason that it is is because of the fact that, without frostbreath, there is no way to get out other than by breaking the blocks; by that time, you would be dead from either lava flow, earth blast, etc. Waterbenders end up HAVING to camp in water, because the minute they come on land they are done for. This ends up making for a very boring fight, and the victor is decided only by who spams basic abilities (watermanipulation and earthblast) faster. Earthbenders might complain that octopusform when used through ice is overpowered, but the fact remains that octopusform first of all creates orifices in the ice for the earthbender to escape, and secondly, the waterbender cannot hit the earthbender in the ice with the exception of octopusform or a glitch with waterarms, which in any case isn't a guaranteed death. Here are some changes which might improve survivability and make earthgrab more balanced.
___________________________

1. Earthblast cannot be used from the ground inside the earthgrab. (The ground inside would turn to cobblestone).

This might seem like a major nerf, but where in the show did you see an earthbender use the ground under a trapped benders feet to make an earthblast. The fact is, physics would prevent the earth from gaining momentum, and the blocks not in the middle would be supporting the earthgrab itself; if one was taken out the whole earthgrab would collapse.
___________________________

2. Earthgrab would disappear after 7 or so seconds.

This would make earthgrab first of all cause less grief in arenas, and second of all give it the purpose of a hindrance to a bender rather than a deathtrap.
___________________________

3. Make earthgrab have a much longer default cool down.

This would give benders time to get to snow or an unearthgrabable spot, so that they can actually fight the earthbender.
___________________________

4. Earthgrab will have a "step" made of cobblestone so the bender can run out.

This makes it slightly easier to get out of earthgrab, especially since waterwave doesn't work while inside it when you use bottles.
___________________________

Alright, so those are my ideas on making earthgrab less op. Tell me what you think.

EarthGrab should be nerfed in some way, but this isn't really the right direction to go.

 

[HadesDude]

I think EarthGrab should be like the one on the server Orion ran shortly before it went down. Basically four blocks would surround a player and make them immobile until they broke one of the blocks around them or bellow them. An earthbender would also be able to use it on themselves to prevent being pushed back.

 

[SchvinDZC]

Not only to many servers allow water bottles in the arenas, but arenas are not the focus of the plugin.

Then why are all bending damage values catered towards unarmored, unarmed player vs. player fighting? Arena PvP definitely needs to be heavily considered when making changes/additions to bending.

EarthGrab should be nerfed in some way, but this isn't really the right direction to go.

^This, but having a set cooldown or "duration" on EarthGrab might not be a bad idea.

 

[FearlessPie121]

Then why are all bending damage values catered towards unarmored, unarmed player vs. player fighting? Arena PvP definitely needs to be heavily considered when making changes/additions to bending.

^This, but having a set cooldown or "duration" on EarthGrab might not be a bad idea.

Agreed, but maybe it could trap the player in a 1 block width so they can't move and they should be partly submerged in the ground. This has a cooldown and duration to make it fair.

 

[Pickle9775]

Then why are all bending damage values catered towards unarmored, unarmed player vs. player fighting? Arena PvP definitely needs to be heavily considered when making changes/additions to bending.

^This, but having a set cooldown or "duration" on EarthGrab might not be a bad idea.

It's not built for PVP arenas. It just supports PVP. Moves are also to be used for PVE and survival. You can use items such as water bottles in the wild where most fighting takes place.

 

[SchvinDZC]

It's not built for PVP arenas. It just supports PVP. Moves are also to be used for PVE and survival. You can use items such as water bottles in the wild where most fighting takes place.

I disagree, the damage values are too low to really matter much in survival. Half decent armor completely negates bending damage, you're much better off with a sword. Some mobility/utility moves are still useful in survival, but its clear the plugin was originally built to focus on arena type PvP. That's why arena combat still needs to be taken into possibly the highest consideration when making changes/additions.

Agreed, but maybe it could trap the player in a 1 block width so they can't move and they should be partly submerged in the ground. This has a cooldown and duration to make it fair
.

Yeah, similar to what Hades said. The only problem I could see is this + LavaFlow. Maybe make the bottom block unmeltable?

 

[HydroMan]

I have already suggest a nerf for earthgrab that actually removes the earthgrab move itself and replaced with the canon part of "earthgrab" which I called EarthGrip (i think if not mislead with b instead of p, or else it is visa versa) xD. Just check it out through my profile.

 

[Pickle9775]

I disagree, the damage values are too low to really matter much in survival. Half decent armor completely negates bending damage, you're much better off with a sword. Some mobility/utility moves are still useful in survival, but its clear the plugin was originally built to focus on arena type PvP. That's why arena combat still needs to be taken into possibly the highest consideration when making changes/additions.

Yeah, similar to what Hades said. The only problem I could see is this + LavaFlow. Maybe make the bottom block unmeltable?

That's why I said it supports PvP. I know first hand that the default config a are sufficient for fighting mobs (evidenced by mob arenas). Most of the damage you deal comes from the strategy you use. I do believe that PVP should be balanced. However I think that in this case server owners should allow water benders to carry bottles as opposed to the devs having to recode a move to accommodate them.

 

[SuperBower118]

I've already prepared myself for the deluge of negative comments and disagreements. However, I feel this needs to be suggested. So, listen up, and feel free to voice disagreement.
___________________________
I've come to the conclusion that earthgrab is entirely too powerful, mostly against water benders. The reason that it is is because of the fact that, without frostbreath, there is no way to get out other than by breaking the blocks; by that time, you would be dead from either lava flow, earth blast, etc. Waterbenders end up HAVING to camp in water, because the minute they come on land they are done for. This ends up making for a very boring fight, and the victor is decided only by who spams basic abilities (watermanipulation and earthblast) faster. Earthbenders might complain that octopusform when used through ice is overpowered, but the fact remains that octopusform first of all creates orifices in the ice for the earthbender to escape, and secondly, the waterbender cannot hit the earthbender in the ice with the exception of octopusform or a glitch with waterarms, which in any case isn't a guaranteed death. Here are some changes which might improve survivability and make earthgrab more balanced.
___________________________

1. Earthblast cannot be used from the ground inside the earthgrab. (The ground inside would turn to cobblestone).

This might seem like a major nerf, but where in the show did you see an earthbender use the ground under a trapped benders feet to make an earthblast. The fact is, physics would prevent the earth from gaining momentum, and the blocks not in the middle would be supporting the earthgrab itself; if one was taken out the whole earthgrab would collapse.
___________________________

2. Earthgrab would disappear after 7 or so seconds.

This would make earthgrab first of all cause less grief in arenas, and second of all give it the purpose of a hindrance to a bender rather than a deathtrap.
___________________________

3. Make earthgrab have a much longer default cool down.

This would give benders time to get to snow or an unearthgrabable spot, so that they can actually fight the earthbender.
___________________________

4. Earthgrab will have a "step" made of cobblestone so the bender can run out.

This makes it slightly easier to get out of earthgrab, especially since waterwave doesn't work while inside it when you use bottles.
___________________________

Alright, so those are my ideas on making earthgrab less op. Tell me what you think.

Earthgrab doesn't force waterbenders to watercamp, at least in my opinion. I've seen some waterbenders that were 2-3 blocks away from a river doing fine on land. Sure, the waterbenders did damage while over water, but they still came on land and were able to operate just fine, at least good enough so that they kept the other benders on land on the defensive (expect air)
For that reason, I don't see why earthgrab needs a nerf. Waterbenders aren't really supposed to be roaming around the land crocodiles...
And when it comes to breaking blocks, that's pretty easy. Break the top block of earthgrab, then put the block under you so you have a staircase out, and you've escaped a lavaflow death. (The instant lavaflow for sneak is a glitch, so you can't really count that)

 

[FearlessPie121]

I have already suggest a nerf for earthgrab that actually removes the earthgrab move itself and replaced with the canon part of "earthgrab" which I called EarthGrip (i think if not mislead with b instead of p, or else it is visa versa) xD. Just check it out through my profile.

I already saw it @HydroMan if I'm referring to your suggestion without saying it, sorry, I don't really memorize suggestion names.

 

[DanBall]

Yes, it will be fair!

 

[Loony]

Hey Tidal,
Firstly, Waterbenders camp in water because that's their source and that's where they're the most strongest.
A lot of your suggestions to 'nerf' earth grab as you will, doesn't really make much sense. I think earth grab is fine, there's often blocks in the corner where you can jump out.

I'm going to deny this.