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Lava Moves

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owlcool

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Normal earth is one of the fastest element. Water is the slowest. I'm ok with it being as slow as water.
Earth is slower then water if you would ever watch earth. Water is fluid, and fast. Sure, earth has a jump(catapult, but it is like the height a chiblocker can jump in legend of korra), but water is faster then earth. You are all kinds of wrong.
 

Finn_Bueno_

Staff member
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Normal earth is one of the fastest element. Water is the slowest. I'm ok with it being as slow as water.
Uhh... I always call earth tank. Water attack speed. Fire attack damage. Air defense. How is earth the fastest ?
 

owlcool

Verified Member
Uhh... I always call earth tank. Water attack speed. Fire attack damage. Air defense. How is earth the fastest ?
I would think of it as, Earth Defense, Fire Offense, Air Evasion, And water is a mixture of those. Water is attack/defense/offense/evasion, incredibly interchangeably. So how would water be slower then earth? This is me agreeing with you.
 

owlcool

Verified Member
I would think of it as, Earth Defense, Fire Offense, Air Evasion, And water is a mixture of those. Water is attack/defense/offense/evasion, incredibly interchangeably. So how would water be slower then earth? This is me agreeing with you.
I mean, sure water is slower then earth when water is guiding a torrent, but that is only when water is guiding a torrent. How would earth be faster then waterspout shift?
 

Orion_Solus

Verified Member
Normal earth is one of the fastest element. Water is the slowest. I'm ok with it being as slow as water.
Not really. I think that you are getting confused with the fact that earth benders have learned to spam earthblast really, and I mean really fast. Making lava even slower would balance the damage factor it will probably have.
Lavabending is based off of bajiquan, if you just wikipedia it the martial art is a slow, powerful martial art. If you want speed, go with earthbending or metalbending, or even sandbending. If you want power, go with lava or earth.
The martial art argument would have worked better in TLA. In LoK it has been showed that in a period of 70-80 years an element can really change. Bolin used a fast type of earth bending during the pro-bending rounds, something very similar to a firebender. Lightning generation and redirection are something available to most average firebenders and it's really quick compared to the one Azula and her father Fire Lord Ozai used but to pay the price it has lost its power. Just some examples of what can happen in a few decades.
 
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owlcool

Verified Member
Not really. I think that you are getting confused with the fact that earth benders have learned to spam earthblast really, and I mean really fast. Making lava even slower would balance the damage factor it will probably have.

The martial art argument would have worked with TLA. In LoK it has been showed that in a period of 70-80 years an element can really change. Bolin used a fast type of earth bending during the pro-bending rounds, something very similar to a firebender. Lightning generation and redirection are something available to most average firebenders and it's really quick compared to the one Azula and her father Fire Lord Ozai used but to pay the price it has lost its power. Just some examples of what can happen in a few decades.
The second part, certain benders such as toph had a different style then traditional earthbending. Toph had something like Southern(Northern?) Preying Mantis. I read that probending styles are based off of like MMA(?) wrestling/boxing styles. I read that on My "Short" Rant that there is a link to in my signature. Do you want more evidence that the martial art behind probending is just one martial art? Bolin was able to teach Korra how to fight in Probending. It is most likely the same style, and it makes sense that it would have a boxing style behind, when the punches are quick and benders are taught to dodge instead of block. So, the martial art argument is still pretty valid.
 

Orion_Solus

Verified Member
The second part, certain benders such as toph had a different style then traditional earthbending. Toph had something like Southern(Northern?) Preying Mantis. I read that probending styles are based off of like MMA(?) wrestling/boxing styles. I read that on My "Short" Rant that there is a link to in my signature. Do you want more evidence that the martial art behind probending is just one martial art? Bolin was able to teach Korra how to fight in Probending. It is most likely the same style, and it makes sense that it would have a boxing style behind, when the punches are quick and benders are taught to dodge instead of block. So, the martial art argument is still pretty valid.
After reading this I can say that a bender is able to change his/her fighting style with out losing the complete nature of the elemnt. They can change it in a fight so why can't a lava bender use something of a faster technique ? (In exchange to the speed they would more then likely loose some potential damage and would have to use semi molten rocks as shown by Gazan when fighting along side Ming-Hua against Mako and Bolin)
 

owlcool

Verified Member
After reading this I can say that a bender is able to change his/her fighting style with out losing the complete nature of the elemnt. They can change it in a fight so why can't a lava bender use something of a faster technique ? (In exchange to the speed they would more then likely loose some potential damage and would have to use semi molten rocks as shown by Gazan when fighting along side Ming-Hua against Mako and Bolin)
Compared to lightning? So for firebending techniques we have, Lightning, Combustion. There are endless possibilities for lavabending and finite possibilities for firebending. Yes, you could technically create a fast use of lavabending, but lightning and combustion are limited to just another form of fireblast that do more damage. Even if you focus on the martial arts, Combustion has no martial art and lightning is just another technique in Northern Shaolin, while on the other hand there is 3-4 martial arts for earthbending. Lava is Bajiquan, Toph's earthbending is Bajiquan, etc. There is the common form of earthbending, and then there is mealbending, which is basically any modern fighting style. Fire is going to be far behind, and to that point there is little doubt.
 

SamuraiSnowman

Verified Member
The lava speed argument is basically broken if you look at the gifs provided in the original thread.. All three are very fast moves that were shown in LoK
 

Pickle9775

Staff member
Head Moderator
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Lavabending is based off of bajiquan, if you just wikipedia it the martial art is a slow, powerful martial art. If you want speed, go with earthbending or metalbending, or even sandbending. If you want power, go with lava or earth.
The speed, range, and power of a bender comes from their skill and practice. A novice bender tends to be slow. Look at Katara in episode one, and Katara in episode sixty-one. Huge difference. Also, look at the difference between bending in Legend Of Korra and Avatar: The Last Airbender. The style of fire and earth changed from slow, large blasts to quick rapid shots. Korra was taught the traditional slow way, but Bolin showed her the light on your feet way.
 

owlcool

Verified Member
The speed, range, and power of a bender comes from their skill and practice. A novice bender tends to be slow. Look at Katara in episode one, and Katara in episode sixty-one. Huge difference. Also, look at the difference between bending in Legend Of Korra and Avatar: The Last Airbender. The style of fire and earth changed from slow, large blasts to quick rapid shots. Korra was taught the traditional slow way, but Bolin showed her the light on your feet way.
And yet, waterbending is faster then earthbending in probending.
 

owlcool

Verified Member
The lava speed argument is basically broken if you look at the gifs provided in the original thread.. All three are very fast moves that were shown in LoK
Compared against? Bolin could do the same with earthbending.
 

owlcool

Verified Member
Then why would you want lava to be slower than earth? You just said now that he can do the same with earth... So earth speed=lava speed
The damage of earth is less then the damage of lava, there should be some debuff or something that will make you change strategy. Maybe lava should be short ranged, that is how the martial art is.
 

Pickle9775

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Head Moderator
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The damage of earth is less then the damage of lava, there should be some debuff or something that will make you change strategy. Maybe lava should be short ranged, that is how the martial art is.
Okay, you need to to stop limiting bending to the style of martial arts bending was based off of. Granted, martial arts are often used as methods use their bending effectively in combat, hence why Zaheer was so good at airbending. Example, what martial art would this possibly be? tumblr_m22kl3NyNA1r6oqyh.gif

It's not baguazhang, so therefor Aang can't do it according to you. He was bending without even moving, so it's not limited to the martial art.
Like I said before, and said in the Series Bible, the power, range, and speed of a bender depends on their skill and physical stamina.

Also, it isn't said anywhere that any element is faster than any other. Look how quickly Toph was able to earthbend against The Boulder
4264629-tumblr_inline_msbjjovjeo1qz4rgp.gif

She manages to create a disruption in the earth from her to him before he can even put his foot down, that's pretty quick.

A combination of both points, that applies to this post is evidenced about 1 minute in

That looks like a pretty fast attack, and no martial art has ranged projectiles, so clearly, its not based on a martial art.

Now lets take a quick step into the real world. NO martial art on earth is based off of being slow. Name one situation where moving and reacting slowly could be a good thing for a martial artist. Martial artists are often regarded for their incredible reaction speed and movements.

Not to be rude, but they way you take one observation, manipulate it into a fact, and then stretch it into a law of the universe is really annoying. Can you please start doing more research on the arguments you make? Also, side note, if the speed of lavabending bothers you, you can always change it in the config ;)
 

owlcool

Verified Member
Okay, you need to to stop limiting bending to the style of martial arts bending was based off of. Granted, martial arts are often used as methods use their bending effectively in combat, hence why Zaheer was so good at airbending. Example, what martial art would this possibly be? View attachment 813

It's not baguazhang, so therefor Aang can't do it according to you. He was bending without even moving, so it's not limited to the martial art.
Like I said before, and said in the Series Bible, the power, range, and speed of a bender depends on their skill and physical stamina.

Also, it isn't said anywhere that any element is faster than any other. Look how quickly Toph was able to earthbend against The Boulder
View attachment 814

She manages to create a disruption in the earth from her to him before he can even put his foot down, that's pretty quick.

A combination of both points, that applies to this post is evidenced about 1 minute in

That looks like a pretty fast attack, and no martial art has ranged projectiles, so clearly, its not based on a martial art.

Now lets take a quick step into the real world. NO martial art on earth is based off of being slow. Name one situation where moving and reacting slowly could be a good thing for a martial artist. Martial artists are often regarded for their incredible reaction speed and movements.

Not to be rude, but they way you take one observation, manipulate it into a fact, and then stretch it into a law of the universe is really annoying. Can you please start doing more research on the arguments you make? Also, side note, if the speed of lavabending bothers you, you can always change it in the config ;)
It is not a question of whenever the speed of something is accurate. It is if this is balanced. Would it be accurate to give avatars the 1 in a 1000 chance to gain a giant spiritual Ocean Spirit Armor while fishing? It would be accurate, but it wouldn't be balanced. Would it be accurate to give 1 in 100 or 1 in 1000 waterbenders the ability to have giant plant armor? It would be accurate, but it wouldn't be balanced. Giving earth a fast, more damaging, Small warmup, Small Cooldown, large range move compared to all the rest of the moves it has is still overpowered. You did notice how a metalbender never fought the same as they regularly did while earthbending? With Toph as the singular exception, because she could only bend metal she touched for as long as we saw her metalbend. Why would that not be the same with lavabending? After all, Lava seems a bit different in how you control it then a rock and metal. Even more different then metal. And we can't exactly just give earth a clone of waterbending made out of lava. We are going to need to change some aspect up, since it is portrayed very differently then earthbending was. Lightning was something that was portrayed to be very damaging, and to not actually have that much of a warmup. Looks like the damage and warmup were debuffed. Why not Lightningize lava? Because you want it to be overpowered? And if you think that speed is something that has been excluded from earthbending, try firebending. I have been suggesting speed upgrades to the attack speed of firebending for a long time. This speed upgrade could be implemented in a combo, etc. Why should earth be faster then fire, a element that has been shown to be faster then earth?
 
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Pickle9775

Staff member
Head Moderator
Moderator
Verified Member
It is not a question of whenever the speed of something is accurate. It is if this is balanced. Would it be accurate to give avatars the 1 in a 1000 chance to gain a giant spiritual Ocean Spirit Armor while fishing? It would be accurate, but it wouldn't be balanced. Would it be accurate to give 1 in 100 or 1 in 1000 waterbenders the ability to have giant plant armor? It would be accurate, but it wouldn't be balanced. Giving earth a fast, more damaging, Small warmup, Small Cooldown, large range move compared to all the rest of the moves it has is still overpowered. You did notice how a metalbender never fought the same as they regularly did while earthbending? With Toph as the singular exception, because she could only bend metal she touched for as long as we saw her metalbend. Why would that not be the same with lavabending? After all, Lava seems a bit different in how you control it then a rock and metal. Even more different then metal. And we can't exactly just give earth a clone of waterbending made out of lava. We are going to need to change some aspect up, since it is portrayed very differently then earthbending was. Lightning was something that was portrayed to be very damaging, and to not actually have that much of a warmup. Looks like the damage and warmup were debuffed. Why not Lightningize lava? Because you want it to be overpowered? And if you think that speed is something that has been excluded from earthbending, try firebending. I have been suggesting speed upgrades to the attack speed of firebending for a long time. This speed upgrade could be implemented in a combo, etc. Why should earth be faster then fire, a element that has been shown to be faster then earth?
I have no issue with reducing the damage of lava or making it less OP, but the speed isn't the way to go. If it has reduced speed nobody will bother using it. I also have an issue with you making up facts to support your case.
 

Faecous

Verified Member
It is not a question of whenever the speed of something is accurate. It is if this is balanced. Would it be accurate to give avatars the 1 in a 1000 chance to gain a giant spiritual Ocean Spirit Armor while fishing? It would be accurate, but it wouldn't be balanced. Would it be accurate to give 1 in 100 or 1 in 1000 waterbenders the ability to have giant plant armor? It would be accurate, but it wouldn't be balanced. Giving earth a fast, more damaging, Small warmup, Small Cooldown, large range move compared to all the rest of the moves it has is still overpowered. You did notice how a metalbender never fought the same as they regularly did while earthbending? With Toph as the singular exception, because she could only bend metal she touched for as long as we saw her metalbend. Why would that not be the same with lavabending? After all, Lava seems a bit different in how you control it then a rock and metal. Even more different then metal. And we can't exactly just give earth a clone of waterbending made out of lava. We are going to need to change some aspect up, since it is portrayed very differently then earthbending was. Lightning was something that was portrayed to be very damaging, and to not actually have that much of a warmup. Looks like the damage and warmup were debuffed. Why not Lightningize lava? Because you want it to be overpowered? And if you think that speed is something that has been excluded from earthbending, try firebending. I have been suggesting speed upgrades to the attack speed of firebending for a long time. This speed upgrade could be implemented in a combo, etc. Why should earth be faster then fire, a element that has been shown to be faster then earth?
Lava bending is essentially a more crude harsh form of water bending.
 

Faecous

Verified Member
W
Uhh... I always call earth tank. Water attack speed. Fire attack damage. Air defense. How is earth the fastest ?
water is one of the slowest elements right now xD Uses aged to do an attack compared to a lot of the other elements. To create a shield it takes a full half second longer then say earth bending. Half a second is CRUCIAL in combat.
 
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