Contest Tie Breaker! Dig or Spiritual Projection?

Discussion in 'News and Announcements' started by OmniCypher, Apr 19, 2017.

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Dig or Spiritual Projection?

Poll closed Apr 25, 2017.
  1. Dig

    23 vote(s)
    45.1%
  2. Spiritual Projection

    28 vote(s)
    54.9%
  1. OmniCypher

    Staff Member Lead Developer Developer

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    Hey everyone! First off, it was explained last week that we have a tie breaker between @Brainwave and @Loony for the ProjectKorra Addon Contest. And it's up to you guys to decide the final winner! If you missed that announcement last week, you can check that out here!
    The entries:
    • Dig - By @Brainwave
      • Dig allows Earthbenders to mine earthbendable blocks and terraform by holding shift. The mined blocks then pop up at the users feet as items for easy collection.
      • For a full look at this ability, you can check out the submission here! (Has a gif on the thread too)
    • SpiritualProjection - By @Loony
      • SpiritualProjection is a multiability that allows the user to use a variety of spiritual projection abilities. These range from attacking others with a spiritual form to flying across the world as a spirit.
      • For a full look at this ability, you can check out the submission here!
    Voting
    As mentioned before, both of these amazing addons were graded by three of our developers based on the following criteria:
    • Creativity - How original the concept of the ability is.
    • Execution - How well that idea was implemented in-game.
    • Usage - Is the move user friendly? Does it mesh well with ProjectKorra? Why would you use this ability more than the other?

    This is what we thought, now it's time for you to cast your votes!

    CREATIVITY
    SpiritualProjection - 24/30
    Although SpiritualProjection is a very well known concept, and a private ability was made of it, the thought of creating the ability as a multiability and utilise the boss bar is something unique, and to my knowledge had not been though of before until this.
    Dig - 16/30
    There was a lot of unique aspects of this move that I really liked. Although it is very similar to EarthTunnel, Dig is more precise and drops the block right by you, which is pretty neat.
    EXECUTION
    SpiritualProjection - 18/30
    The execution for this move was pretty good. However, there were still quite a few bugs or inconsistencies that could have been easily addressed. These wouldn't have been such a large issue if this entry wasn't turned in only a week after the contest started. We all feel many of these issues could have been fixed if more time was put into the move.
    Dig - 26/30
    Dig was very well executed, very well programmed, and it does exactly what it says it does, no questions asked. Our only critiques were on some asthetics of the move such as how the items were dropped. Apart from that, very well done!

    We would like you, the ProjectKorra community, to help us decide the winner based on these three criteria. While you do not have to specify your reasons for voting for a certain ability, we certainly encourage you to give constructive feedback to the finalists. To vote, just vote in the poll at the top of the thread. Voting will be open for one week. After that, you will be unable to vote or change your vote.

    Voting closes on the 24th April, 12pm GMT.
    Thanks to everyone that submitted an addon for this contest! It was great looking at them all, and best of luck to our winners for the final round of voting!
     
    #1
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  2. Loony

    Loony Member

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    Since the links don't work, here's my ability:

    How is your ability supposed to function? What is it supposed to do?

    Spiritual Projection is a completely unique and advanced spiritual ability that allows you to focus your spiritual energy into attack, defense or even mobility. These abilities require you to have enough spiritual energy, which can be recharged by meditating. The amount of spiritual energy an ability requires can be configured, and spiritual energy is displayed with Minecraft's boss bar. Left click to start the multi-ability.

    Meditate - Hold sneak to charge up your spiritual energy.
    Spirit - Hold sneak to transform into a spirit and begin traveling. If you release sneak, the ability will cancel. (Config option to teleport at the end of the ability, false by default)
    AstralAttack - Hold sneak to send out an astral projection in attack form, damaging anyone that comes into contact with it. This astral attack will go in the direction that you're looking.
    SpiritualDrain - Hold sneak to start draining the spiritual energy out of players that are in range. Once players are drained, they won't be able to use abilities for a certain amount of time. This ability also heals you once you've drained their spiritual connection.
    Exit - Tap sneak to exit the multi-ability.

    The purpose of this ability was to introduce new features into ProjectKorra that haven't yet been explored: Spiritual energy, spiritual projection, and astral attacks.
    Meditate:
    [​IMG]

    Spirit:
    [​IMG]

    AstralAttack:
    [​IMG]

    Drain:
    [​IMG]
     
    #2
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2017
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  3. xNuminousx

    xNuminousx Member

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    I will provide my feedback. Although the links aren't working and I've only had the opportunity to test one of these abilities, I'll try to be as unbias as I can. I will also try REALLY hard not to be negative or demanding.

    Dig
    So from what I can tell, this is a really neat ability. All I've gotten from it is what Omni has said above. The basic concept of it (digging in the ground) isn't exactly "original" since that concept already exist in the stock ability Earth Tunnel, but the concept of being able to extract items from the ground gives Earth a whole new aspect and allows it to better use the areas around them to their advantage. I think this move could EASILY, without question, be added to the Project Korra stock list. I'm not aware if this will be made a public addon or if they are considering adding this into Core, but I look forward to being able to test this out a bit and provide a better response. I see that this move allows you to dig, extract, and terraform. Personally, I would rename this to Earth Manipulation or something similar. This includes 3 different concepts of manipulation so I would recommend the name be changed to Earth Manipulation or Earth Control or something of the sorts, since "Dig" is not the only capability of this move. Also, I love how you combined several concepts into the SAME move, rather than having them in separate ones or one concept in this move. It's been an issue that's been pointed out about repetitive moves and concepts like this one can really solve this issue.

    Overall, sounds like you did a great job on the ability and I look forward to reading about it in full once that link gets fixed (lol) or it gets released to the public in some way, shape or form.

    Spiritual Projection
    This is the move that I was able to test out and see in person, because @Loony was kind enough to release it to the public. Because the idea of a Spiritual Project ability had been discussed numerous times in the past, I wouldn't call this an original move. BUT... There's a big BUT here.... Loony's execution of this common idea is what made it truly unique and original. I personally don't recall anyone saying Spiritual Projection should be a multi ability OR have an energy system... Props to you Loony, very nice thinking. The energy system adds a whole new side to Project Korra that we haven't seen yet. It takes something that would be OP (over powered) and "nerfs" it a bit - to make it more realistic and more server friendly. Personally I love the multi ability idea. I know there's been some discussion over whether it should be a multi ability or an ability pack, but I think it's perfect just the way it is. When we saw someone "become a spirit" or enter the spirit world, they were in a sort of "state". They could not do anything outside of what they could do spiritually. By making this an ability pack, it would ruin the idea that Airbenders had to enter a certain state of mind to be able to use these kinds of powers, which disables them from using other Air moves. The multi ability idea is the best and closest way we are going to get to being Canon. Now, speaking of canon. You went out of your way to think of things that aren't canon. I do not recall an Airbender in the spiritual form being able to shoot an energized body outward to damage an opponent, but I love the concept. The original ideas in this multi ability gives a whole new depth to spiritual powers that we did not see in the show. I cannot think of any developmental downside that have not been mentioned - the bugs..... However, I do have a sort of issue with how this multi ability will be executed in servers. Because of it's uniqueness, favoritism, power and look I can easily see this being a donor option in many server stores. It's unique so that makes it generate more appeal to people looking to buy stuff. The idea of a spiritual project ability is something fans have wanted for a long time, which also creates appeal to the ability making it an easy source of income for servers. It is a pretty powerful ability if used correctly, something that would either persuade server owners to 1) Not use it or 2) Put it up for donors only. It looks really unique. Players like to feel unique and special while playing on their server, which is why Ranks are popular, so this will also be an easy source of income for many servers. Basically, I fear this will just add to the "pay2win" servers which I dislike. I don't like servers when they are selling things like elements and abilities. I understand servers need to make money to keep their server afloat, I know it costs a lot. But there's a moment when you either decide to make money, or be fair. However you perceive that moment, is up to you. This is just how I feel about it all.

    Overall Decision
    I voted for Spiritual Projection for 1st place. Both ability submissions were AMAZING submissions, however Spiritual Projection had the edge in all areas. In my opinion, Dig was an amazing ability, where Spiritual Projection was an extraordinary ability that took a simple concept and turned it into so much more. If it were me doing all the tallies, I believe Spiritual Projection would have had a slight edge over Dig in all sections. This decision does not mean that Dig sucks or that the creator of Dig is not good. From what I can tell, Dig is an amazing move. But to me, it's like comparing Vanilla ice cream to cookies and cream ice cream. Both are really delicious and likable, but one takes Ice cream to a whole new level! Anyone who did not win 1st place in this competition, please do not be discouraged in making abilities. I believe anyone who participated has the ability and confidence required to develop for Pk. You all are amazing people and I'm so glad this friendly competition was a success. Once I fix a few issues in my current ability in development, I will state it was the one I was going to submit if I finished it. If I release one that doesn't have this statement, don't get excited lol.
     
    #3
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2017
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  4. Simplicitee

    Staff Member Developer

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    I was asked to provide the description and gif from the thread of @Brainwave so here it is:

    Description:
    Dig is a utility ability for earthbenders. The bender holds sneak and looks at earthebendable blocks. The blocks will be dug up and the block items dropped at the player's feet.

    Gif:
    [​IMG]
     
    #4
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  5. plasmarob

    Staff Member Developer

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    I'm still in talks to join the dev team, but I have built my own versions of these abilities in my plugin based off a 2-year-old version of PK's code.
    If you want them, here are my thoughts:

    SpiritualProjection seems awfully complex. Very creative, however.
    it looks like it's missing an aspect that mine has - leaving your body behind you /out of body experience. If this is a discussion about adding it to the existing PK core, i'd want to see that be part of it.

    Dig is great. Simple, gets the job done. I didn't think to pop the items to the player. Mine also allows you to dig upward without having to place blocks underneath you manually - so you can get up as fast as you go down.

    I'd side with Dig as far as the core goes, simply because deviating so far from canon can be a long-term problem.
    If they are standalone addons for a user to add major custom functionality, Projection is definitely more expansive.
    Execution really matters to the long term quality of ProjectKorra. Every bug/inconsistency adds additional technical debt.
     
    #5
  6. MeskenasBoii

    MeskenasBoii Member

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    Unless you can direct me the server to where I can test them (I won't bother creating one for myself for only testing sakes), for now I would vote for Spiritual Projection based on both descriptions of theirs from these thread.

    Since I'm no techno/code whiz, I will only be judging by their in-games concept/features.

    SpiritualProjection
    Generally I despise MultiAbilities, but I can excuse this because it adds more creative. Therefor I'm giving slight edge to @Loony's over @Brainwave's.

    Although, that isn't the end and I can see flaws that are important to address. Starting with the canon argument, and yes, it might be good excuse that "not everthing has to be canon", which in these common-days addon developers tend to ignore as a guideline, but I still feel there could been a better execution on that part. Even If the spiritual projection in reality doesn't much offer and isn't explored to us much, due to the show storylines vague inspiration on that sub-technique, I still do feel something better could have replaced AstralAttack and SpiritualDrain, that would been more logical and not fluff.

    For example, considering that airbenders that weild SpiritualProjection are obviously are more spiritual, this could have introduce an ability that summon spirits (like upsidedown rainbow sheep or enderman, which to me personally remind me more as spirits) that air to protect you (enderman teleporting you away, while sheep spawns WoolBlockade) and alike stuff from the show. Whilst it isn't directly related to Spirititual Projection, it would have been a nice easter egg about airbenders (aka only Jinora) that were highly in tute with spirits and all that spiritual mumbo-jumbo and being the user of this ability .

    I have nothing else to add, apart that AstralAttack tends to give Oh-another-offensive-ability-for-pasifists (disapointment) vibe. Drain doesn't even make sense (how does spiritually fuel and keep bending active?)

    Dig
    Not sure If this was allowed in the contest, but I would have preffer If this was to replace initial ability by keeping stock's name +"EarthTunnel". Usually, servers happen to be suffering "must-have-2-many-over-dose-abilities-in-da-arsenal sydrome", which is the words that I recall somebody something putting them more better than I could word it. It might be a disgrace If I were to used an example with another addon, but for the argument excuse: I don't like having earthblast and earthline be seperate abilities when they could better off be overriding either either one of the other.

    IMO, this ability is op, because you can collect blocks easily (If it happens to treat all blocks equally based on theory from reading its description).

    Also, I find it more rip-off, which isn't any better but more impotent than the stock variation. For defensive usage, it's pretty pointless, because it would take figuratively hours and longer to dig a tunnel and enclosing it to the very depths where you could feel safe|secured|hidden from others. Same goes for utility/mining usage and I would probably more willing to spare my time and use all resources to craft a pickaxe, as I think my finger/ or hand would overtime become sore while using this ability due to the requirement of press&holding sneak key, rather inficently holding LMB. I just don't wanna strain my finger over a keyboard button when it removes only ONE block at a time.
     
    #6
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2017
  7. xNuminousx

    xNuminousx Member

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    Well there's a physical and spiritual side to Bending. As a Grandmaster white lotus member told Korra in the first episode of The Legend of Korra. If you do some research of Chi it's kind of like a life force. I read it's what distinguishes life from death. And I'm sure it has many other properties. Some of which, may be spiritual. I see no reason why a person who can manipulate Spiritual energy cannot tap into ones own spiritual energy and temporarily disable it. We heard a lion turtle tell Aang that in the era before the avatar, they learned not to bend the elements, but the energy within. And with this, Aang was able to remove someone's Bending. Again, I see no reason why a bender of a smaller scale than the avatar, with enough spiritual experience, cannot temporarily disable ones bending - similarly to how Amon used Bloodbending to tap into ones Chi (water being the other spiritual element).
     
    #7
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  8. Loony

    Loony Member

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    Thanks for the review, I just wanna respond to a few things though;
    - The move can be sold with vote points instead of just money, voting helps a server more than donations imo :p
    -can I just say
    that it was specifically told to us that nothing had to be canon, which is why the ability isn't 100% canon lol
     
    #8
  9. xNuminousx

    xNuminousx Member

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    Although things CAN be sold with points, money is the most common form of sales.
     
    #9
  10. Loony

    Loony Member

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    LOL I WAS WRITING SOMETHING AND I FORGOT AND IT SAVED IN MY DRAFTS I DIDNT MEAN TO SEND IT HAHA
     
    #10
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  11. MeskenasBoii

    MeskenasBoii Member

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    Nothing had to be canon, but it can be canon. I do however appreciate canon stuff, why is I why I found a minus in it. Though, I would more put it in a word of "illogical" rather as non-canon, because for some reason people find insulting sometimes.
     
    #11
  12. xNuminousx

    xNuminousx Member

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    Rip
     
    #12
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  13. MeskenasBoii

    MeskenasBoii Member

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    Fair point. Though, why only airbending?
    1. Amon himself prove it that you don't need to be an airbender to remove bending. It is just so random for an airbender to have the ability to get rid of bending.
    2. There is already an addon for that, made by @Sobki
    3. I think I know a good counter-argument, but I'll have to check again in-depth how Amon's removebending works to doublecheck beforehand.
     
    #13
  14. MeskenasBoii

    MeskenasBoii Member

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    I think you misunderstood it. The Concept was bending the energy inside without taking/ripping off from the element, but thus shaping it. Take Huu for instance. He bent the vines by bending water that was inside them, but unlike Hama: he didn't took the water out of them.

    Vines = element.
    water inside = energy inside.

    In analogy, elementalbenders were Huus, not Hamas.

    That's just speculation. Somebody can bet that earthbenders can bent trees because they are connected to the earth. Bending pure energy and bending it something inside are two different things, with the latter being is what benders utilize. With special bloodbending and avatar, in those instances the bender can "absorb"/nulify the bending away.
     
    #14
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2017
  15. Loony

    Loony Member

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    My point is, I wasn't trying to make something completely canon so I don't think it's worth pointing out that it's not canon as a flaw lol, but anyway, my thought process was to introduce a new style of spiritual bending that wasn't really seen in the show but could be considered to be accurate by arguing how spiritual connection works. I viewed it as a type of chi that wasn't explored in the show; spiritual energy. It's like Airbender's version of chiblocking. I just rolled with that idea :)
     
    #15
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  16. MeskenasBoii

    MeskenasBoii Member

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    Thought it wouldn't be fair to end my feedback without providing the "Execution" part, but whatevz.

    Spiritual Projection should be about projection though. Nothing else imo.

    Where did you got that information from? If they could bend energy, what is there any application for doing so? If the element manipulation wasn't a thing yet, what use would they have by weilding that power?
     
    #16
  17. MeskenasBoii

    MeskenasBoii Member

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    That's analogy, I wasn't stating they were elements.
     
    #17
  18. MeskenasBoii

    MeskenasBoii Member

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    I was comparing the principle on how energybending works. Like Hama, avatars and lion turtles are only known that can extract energy out.
    That's a different form of spiritual projection. It isn't Airbending related.
    Where did you take that info from?
    Because they don't have an ancient spirit inside them? Because they weren't granted the ability to remove someone's bending by some kind of spirit? That's so easy to understand.
     
    #18
  19. MeskenasBoii

    MeskenasBoii Member

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    Back to square one!
    And to repeat that and a few more questions
    spiritualprojection-bending*
    Somehow, out of nowhere, it suppose to heal the user? SMH
    Also, totally not healingwaters copycat :rolleyes:
    Why doesn't SpiritualDrain require physical touch/contact?
    So many questions I have :D
    I thought that's how it worked. My bad.
    I interpet "knowledge" as the understanding of perceiving that it exists.

    Thing is, the whole bending-energy thing is unrelated to airbenders sub-skill. If any bender can do it, it then shouldn't be exclusive to SP sub-skill. That's the issue I find with it. It is unrelated really.
     
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    Last edited: Apr 19, 2017
  20. MeskenasBoii

    MeskenasBoii Member

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    So why point it out. We were talking about the Drain usage. The Fact that it fuels your spiritual projection power doesn't add up much sense. We establish that they don't energy out of a being and "feed" themselves to use SP attacks.
     
    #20