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Fire Blast Redirection

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Moonelight

Verified Member
You're right. I'm all about not allowing fire redirection. If you read my argument, you'll see why. Just because it was in the show doesn't mean it should necessarily be added, which is also (maybe a little too vaguely, sorry) explained in my argument when I call the people he redirected it against firetossers. If you're going to change my mind you're going to need a little bit stronger of an argument .-.
Heh, I get it. I'm honestly just giving up on this move entirely. One reason: The fact that the only person actively replying is trying to anger me on purpose because he hates me (no one can make me hate them without reason just btw), and two because after having a private conversation with someone we decided to stop supporting the thread. But that doesn't mean I don't support the move, that's a personal feeling. I don't support the thread any longer because there isn't more than one source for this move being used in the show, and also because other reasons.

I have better suggestions than this one and I plan to release them this week:)
Atleast I can say thank you for contributing your opinion to this thread.

P.S. Any move from the show could be added if it had good reason, giant water glaciers have no good reason!

~Fly
 

owlcool

Verified Member
Heh, I get it. I'm honestly just giving up on this move entirely. One reason: The fact that the only person actively replying is trying to anger me on purpose because he hates me (no one can make me hate them without reason just btw), and two because after having a private conversation with someone we decided to stop supporting the thread. But that doesn't mean I don't support the move, that's a personal feeling. I don't support the thread any longer because there isn't more than one source for this move being used in the show, and also because other reasons.

I have better suggestions than this one and I plan to release them this week:)
Atleast I can say thank you for contributing your opinion to this thread.

P.S. Any move from the show could be added if it had good reason, giant water glaciers have no good reason!

~Fly
Sorry for posting without hesitation, but my mindset is akin to @TheBlueSpirit
This was rarely used in the show, and it could very well ruin firebending pvp, or at least make some serious changes to it.
I hope I am not the one you believe I hate, and I was not trying to anger you if it came off that way.
Right now I am posting with plenty of caution, trying not to offend anyone, but I most likely post without hesitation in due time. I am currently reviewing this down to the last word and punctuation mark. So, sorry if I offended you.
 

Moonelight

Verified Member
Sorry for posting without hesitation, but my mindset is akin to @TheBlueSpirit
This was rarely used in the show, and it could very well ruin firebending pvp, or at least make some serious changes to it.
I hope I am not the one you believe I hate, and I was not trying to anger you if it came off that way.
Right now I am posting with plenty of caution, trying not to offend anyone, but I most likely post without hesitation in due time. I am currently reviewing this down to the last word and punctuation mark. So, sorry if I offended you.
No it's completely fine, I can get aggressive very quickly in other threads too. But yeah, I don't support the move to be added anymore.
it could very well ruin firebending pvp
That was actually one of the other reasons I stopped supporting the thread.
 

Simplicitee

Staff member
Plugin Developer
Verified Member
This was rarely used in the show, and it could very well ruin firebending pvp, or at least make some serious changes to it.
Tell me what is so bad about change?

And to all the comments about it not being the spirit of the element:
Redirection is more of a water thing, but that doesn't mean that fire benders wouldn't be able to redirect fire shot at them. It is both logical and was done in the show. Even if it was just one time, it was done.

And based on it not being in the spirit of the element, we should just get rid of lightning redirection as it is a fire sub element and it can be redirected. Your argument with that doesn't go very far when you think about it.

One more thing before people try to kill me with their brains. I think if this is implemented, it should use sneak to catch the fire, and then left click to send it back. Just so it isn't as messy.
 

Migsel

Verified Member
This is actually canon. Firebending actually uses many circular motions. I don't feel like quoting or any of that because it's 10:30 PM and I wake up at 5:00 AM everyday and I'm a bit sleepy (and I still has geometry homework).
 

Dr_CrossFire

Verified Member
Tell me what is so bad about change?

And to all the comments about it not being the spirit of the element:
Redirection is more of a water thing, but that doesn't mean that fire benders wouldn't be able to redirect fire shot at them. It is both logical and was done in the show. Even if it was just one time, it was done.

And based on it not being in the spirit of the element, we should just get rid of lightning redirection as it is a fire sub element and it can be redirected. Your argument with that doesn't go very far when you think about it.

One more thing before people try to kill me with their brains. I think if this is implemented, it should use sneak to catch the fire, and then left click to send it back. Just so it isn't as messy.
Difference being that Lightning redirection was actually a skill mentioned, taught and used a lot more often than the redirection of actual Fire. Iroh said it himself; it was a technique he came up with when studying waterbending. Redirecting something isn't as logical or easy as you guys might think. Water works very differently from fire; firebenders don't need sources, and make their own fire, whilst waterbenders will always bend the same, shared substance: water. This is why it is often redirected in the show, they bend the exact same thing. Perhaps, using that logic, it wouldn't be even possible to redirect fire that isn't your own because of that. (The atla movie was actually very different from the original show; firebenders could only bend fire from sources of fire. Iroh was the only one to be able to "create" fire: he said that one can create his own fire if you exchange your own chi for it. Misalignment of two firebenders' chi might be another reason why one can't bend another bender's fire)

And if it is canon - which I seriously doubt it is, it happened once over the course of 7 seasons worth of episodes in a very insignificant manner - you have to take into account that this plugin won't and can't represent everything in the show. Element's identity, move balance and technical limitations from minecraft have to be considered with plugins like these. Giving Airbenders the ability to fly isn't as easy as just giving them /fly, for obvious reasons. Making an Airblast, Fireblast, Earthblast and Waterblast with the exact same damage and controls, just with different particles, would be a no-go; elements need to be different and keep to their own identity, water's being versatility and change. Redirection is treading on that very territory, and I don't approve of this suggestion because of that.
 
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paliate

Verified Member
I also feel like if a developer was able to do this (which im not too sure about) it would have been done with torrent by now.
 

Dr_CrossFire

Verified Member
I also feel like if a developer was able to do this (which im not too sure about) it would have been done with torrent by now.
Actually, code-wise it wouldn't be an issue. Watermanipulation and Earthblast currently can be redirected, I imagine the same can be done with particle-based moves.
 

paliate

Verified Member
I believe the way he wants it is sortof a flowy torrent type of thing, where it swooshes around you and goes back the other direction, atleast that's what i think from the images i've seen so far.

the truth is that i just skimmed through, but it probably is doable, just not too sure about the animation perspective considering that the only true redirection is the new lightning that you can shift and get a no cooldown lightning that your able to redirect, i've never actually see them do any redirection like what's being explained here.

I'd also like to point out that i believe the watermanipulation and earthblast were already redirectable from the original plugin (i'm about 80% sure, correct me if im wrong), therefor there is no proof of projectkorra developers being able to do this.
 

Dr_CrossFire

Verified Member
I believe the way he wants it is sortof a flowy torrent type of thing, where it swooshes around you and goes back the other direction, atleast that's what i think from the images i've seen so far.

the truth is that i just skimmed through, but it probably is doable, just not too sure about the animation perspective considering that the only true redirection is the new lightning that you can shift and get a no cooldown lightning that your able to redirect, i've never actually see them do any redirection like what's being explained here.

I'd also like to point out that i believe the watermanipulation and earthblast were already redirectable from the original plugin (i'm about 80% sure, correct me if im wrong), therefor there is no proof of projectkorra developers being able to do this.
Very true, but the PK plugin was reworked and optimalised, so I'm sure the developers are familiar with the code. Besides, we're talking about the people who implemented the combo AirStream.
 

paliate

Verified Member
We don't know if they are familiar with redirection, Airstream has nothing to do with redirection.
 

Dr_CrossFire

Verified Member
We don't know if they are familiar with redirection, Airstream has nothing to do with redirection.
It actually does. You point one way and it goes there, point another way and it follows. Wether it's following a cursor, like AirStream or Torrent, or clicking rapidly like Watermanipulation, the code for giving a move another direction is used multiple times. Interaction with moves from others too, such as some moves blocking others.

Redirection can be interpreted in two ways here; redirecting, giving something a new and different direction as in redirecting your own moves, such as Torrent, and redirecting your opponent's moves. Either have been used in the plugin; I believe the plugin was rebuilt from the ground up a while ago for optimisation and smoother interaction with old Orion moves and new PK moves.
 

paliate

Verified Member
The flow maybe, But i'd like to point out the big problem here...
Just because they can get the flow right doesn't mean they can transfer a currently active block and give control to the next player, there have been many threads on redirection and none have been accepted, (not that i know of anyways) I think it's a long run that this will actually happen.
I do hope i'm proven wrong though ;)
 

TheBlueSpirit

Verified Member
Difference being that Lightning redirection was actually a skill mentioned, taught and used a lot more often than the redirection of actual Fire. Iroh said it himself; it was a technique he came up with when studying waterbending. Redirecting something isn't as logical or easy as you guys might think. Water works very differently from fire; firebenders don't need sources, and make their own fire, whilst waterbenders will always bend the same, shared substance: water. This is why it is often redirected in the show, they bend the exact same thing. Perhaps, using that logic, it wouldn't be even possible to redirect fire that isn't your own because of that. (The atla movie was actually very different from the original show; firebenders could only bend fire from sources of fire. Iroh was the only one to be able to "create" fire: he said that one can create his own fire if you exchange your own chi for it. Misalignment of two firebenders' chi might be another reason why one can't bend another bender's fire)

And if it is canon - which I seriously doubt it is, it happened once over the course of 7 seasons worth of episodes in a very insignificant manner - you have to take into account that this plugin won't and can't represent everything in the show. Element's identity, move balance and technical limitations from minecraft have to be considered with plugins like these. Giving Airbenders the ability to fly isn't as easy as just giving them /fly, for obvious reasons. Making an Airblast, Fireblast, Earthblast and Waterblast with the exact same damage and controls, just with different particles, would be a no-go; elements need to be different and keep to their own identity, water's being versatility and change. Redirection is treading on that very territory, and I don't approve of this suggestion because of that.
Thank you for explaining why I chose my stance far better than I ever could.
 

owlcool

Verified Member
I just thought of something, This might actually be represented. Fireblast has no cooldown, but you can only use one fireblast at a time. So to "redirect" a fireblast, when it gets close to you just block it with your own fireblast and then immediately shoot a fireblast in the same direction as the first click. Anyone disagree with me?
 

TheBlueSpirit

Verified Member
I just thought of something, This might actually be represented. Fireblast has no cooldown, but you can only use one fireblast at a time. So to "redirect" a fireblast, when it gets close to you just block it with your own fireblast and then immediately shoot a fireblast in the same direction as the first click. Anyone disagree with me?
Essentially another reason why we don't need it. Because that's possible.
 
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