Suggestion Returning To The Plugin's Roots - A Reasonable Complaint

[Gahshunk]

Project Korra has come a long, long way since its beginnings as the original bending plugin. Many of the changes, however, seem to have been due to over-enthusiastic endeavors added to the plugin without much thought of the bigger picture. Orion had developed a plugin that had very balanced elements, with a total of nine abilities for each element (save for bloodbending). What we have now is mildly messy, unbalanced, and somewhat out of touch with what some of us loved about it.

Suggestion
Over the course of this post, my main concerns will be explained, but simply put, I feel some of the PK changes and additions are a little unwarranted, or out of touch with how the plugin can function as a standalone.

Key Points
-Less commands to see every move using /bending display
-Balance number of abilities per element
-Return maybe a couple of abilities to some of their former glory, or create a working solution (as in WaterBubble)
-Reduce reliance on custom abilities

Explanation - The part where I complain a bit
I commend developers that improved existing abilities. HealingWaters, for example, cures status effects, making it handy for all manner of afflictions. Opposite of that, moves like WaterBubble/AirBubble were rendered less useful by adding a mandatory sneak hold, substantially reducing mobility because of a developer who adamantly declared his opinion of what the ability should be superior (no, I don't want to use it for espionage, I want to build underwater while moving in whatever direction I want, but props to animating the bubble forming).

One could argue that abilities could be disabled, or that custom abilities can be used in place of current ones even, especially to fill that weird balancing. I have little argument for that. That's completely right, and I'm just being weird when I say that a lot of the completeness feels gone when I can't use a reliable and complete base plugin without additional plugins and add-ons.

Lastly, icebending... Why. Why would you declare it a subskill just because it changed phases. No, this is not like changing the state of matter of earth to lava. It's literally half of the entire waterbending set that every waterbender knows. We can't simply use the one command, we begrudgingly have to use extra commands to see the entire set of moves.

Conclusion
Change is great, but reducing the complexity would make it a lot more user-friendly... I could be very wrong, but this plugin has taken a turn into a place I find a bit strange and unnecessary.

 

[xNuminousx]

I’m kind of confused by what exactly your point is.

I see you feel Pk has become more complex since it’s orion says but then you go into someone’s opinions about WaterBubble and then there’s that bit about IceBending... I’m just confused.

 

[Finn_Bueno_]

I have no idea what you're suggesting.

 

[MeskenasBoii]

Can you change the poll options a bit or rephrase the question. 'Both' as in yes or no? Also, there's no way I can give my vote without generalizing all your multiple ideas that are covered by one pole that generalizes as a whole

I commend developers that improved existing abilities. HealingWaters, for example, cures status effects, making it handy for all manner of afflictions. Opposite of that, moves like WaterBubble/AirBubble were rendered less useful by adding a mandatory sneak hold, substantially reducing mobility because of a developer who adamantly declared his opinion of what the ability should be superior (no, I don't want to use it for espionage, I want to build underwater while moving in whatever direction I want, but props to animating the bubble forming).

Doesn't like healingwaters already do just that? It does cure the person from any status affects Personally, I would instead want it to be remove, because OP and that application doesn't suit the core lore. And yeah for WaterbBubble, many have suggested the optional boolean config option whenever it requires the user to hold sneak or not. Concept designers do agree that this level of control to config managers should be

Lastly, icebending... Why. Why would you declare it a subskill just because it changed phases. No, this is not like changing the state of matter of earth to lava. It's literally half of the entire waterbending set that every waterbender knows. We can't simply use the one command, we begrudgingly have to use extra commands to see the entire set of moves.

I think the reason they implanted it as a dedicated category is so that is easier to disable cryokinetic powers altogether. Freezing especially.

 

[xNuminousx]

I think the reason they implanted it as a dedicated category is so that is easier to disable cryokinetic powers altogether. Freezing especially.

Icebending is it's own sort of style apart from water. Ice acts differently than water; on a molecular level and in bending.

 

[Gahshunk]

I have no idea what you're suggesting.

The entire point is "Reduce complexity where possible," moving just slightly closer to the original

Key Points
-Less commands to see every move using /bending display
-Balance number of abilities per element
-Return maybe a couple of abilities to some of their former glory, or create a working solution (as in WaterBubble)
-Reduce reliance on custom abilities

I'm not even gonna argue with the cryokinetic thing, my point just stands that most abilities with "/bending display water" would be shown if ice remained as regular waterbending. Not going to try to convince anyone, just want to give my opinion that, because all waterbenders can use it effortlessly, unlike other subskills, it is strange to consider it special in that regard at all.

I'll rewrite some of the main post.

 

[xNuminousx]

I don't see the plugin as complex but maybe that's just my years of experience setting in. When I first started bending it was pretty simple but they've since grown; so I don't know what it's like from a new benders perspective in this day and age. So I guess my point is that I don't see this as being complex but if it were to new people, I would understand that.

 

[StrangeOne101]

You may like WaterBubble when you didn't have to hold shift but... I'm gonna say it's technically not canon. Also, there is a click version of WaterBubble as well. Why not just increase the time of that?

 

[MeskenasBoii]

Icebending is it's own sort of style apart from water. Ice acts differently than water; on a molecular level and in bending.

I was trying to emphasized that it ain't define as a short of specialized bending category. Noobest waterbenders could manipulate and change water into child, and their own skills portrayed how proficient they were.

 

[MeskenasBoii]

Key Points
-Less commands to see every move using /bending display
-Balance number of abilities per element, b
-Return maybe a couple of abilities to some of their former glory, or create a working solution (as in WaterBubble)
-Reduce reliance on custom abilities

You know, I actually agree with your bolded point. I do think it's unnecessary to just pack sub-bending ability list into subcommands, because with the following list (established paragraph) it's just a minor annoyance / pet-peeve. Therefore I think it's a lot practical to just rather have sub-element ability names appear directly on the global /bending display [element] command.

It's hard to explain with clear argument structure, but I can use the {/bending display lightning} and {/bending display combustion} commands as an examples to make my point clear:
1. Why not save the trouble of including lightning and combustion ability directly in {/b d fire}, since it's a bit redundant to have a command-dedicated-to-displaying-subelement's-abilities when the amount of listed items are lackluster in scale.
2. Why not save the trouble of including lightning and combustion ability directly in {/b d fire}, since the darker shaded color font gives a really concise hint they are categorized as sub-elements and their initial starting name of the compound noun (for instance: healing for HealingWaters, lavabending for Lavaflow) specify in what particular sub-element they belong to.

I would propose that how the /b d (element) works, its functions should be rewritten, showing also listed out abilities of the subelements directly, without prompting the player to execute another again command that displays abilities that are dedicated to it's the corresponding child-list. While I do suggest recoding this system, I think the {/bending display [subelement]} should remain not removed nonetheless (it does have a practicality for testing purpose, such as checking If add-ons are properly installed for that sub-element without clogging up the chat with the ultimate core list of its element)

While I may sound nitpicking, which I am, but If you think about it: the /bending display [sub-element] has barely any practical usage, but more of the times being just redundantly overcomplicating (at least to the new players).

Onto other stuff!

Spoiler: Heated Rant

Key Points
-Less commands to see every move using /bending display
-Return maybe a couple of abilities to some of their former glory, or create a working solution (as in WaterBubble)
-Reduce reliance on custom abilities

Could you list out more of these vague elaborations of the 'couple of abilities' you have in mind? I would caution you to be careful with what you wish with the way you vaguely worded it, as you may literally unwanted changes in the game due to careless unspecifications you included in this whole thread. Like, would you really want Tornado to be OP and pick up players in the air and kill them by dropping like how it once did in Orion.

-Reduce reliance on custom abilities

Again, can you even be more vague? I'm starting to question, no offense, how you even became a concept designer If you're throwing/spit-balling ideas here and there without really going in depth? Perhaps I shouldn't come to this prejudice judgment as I don't know you very well, but I can't help but be confused on how you kept on confusing us to what you really wanna say, lol. Then again, I could just be a hypocritical asshole, lol.

 

[xNuminousx]

I do agree that having less commands and being more compact could be very useful. As someone who has memorized all of the abilities and combos I do not often list them in chat; therefor it’s not important to me what they do.

And Mesk, you said to specify his reasonings because they may add something that he doesn’t want, well I disagree. In the past, the CD team has been critical about the information they get. If they don’t get the info they want then they won’t do it. He should be worried more about his concerns not getting implemented rather than the wrong ones getting implemented.

So, as my last remarks on the matter, I voted Both in the poll. Yes, these concerns may be important to some people but no they don’t effect me nor concern me. I’m doing fine with the way the plugin is now.

 

[MeskenasBoii]

That may as well eventually happen. It's hard to understand what exactly the original post is trying to request, or what exact changes he craves for. And because, If s/he does not add details to the post soon, the ruthless designers will stamp the thread red and lock it up.

 

[Gahshunk]

I won't lie, I didn't do much as a concept designer. At the time, concept designers didn't have much of a say. It was mostly whatever ideas that the developers came up with that decidedly went into the plugin.

 

[MeskenasBoii]

It's pretty clearly listed under Key Points.

Yeah "it's cleary listed". Based on my overestimated assumtion, It's a fact that you want

• To omit the tools for custom ability creation and importation.
• Random abilities removed for each element for your "balance ability count" to suceed.
• By 'couple abilites to reborn', in your mindset you mean 12.

My comfirmation is spot on accurate, yeah?

Sarcasm aside, you yourself (not only us) doesn't know what exact changes you want for the developers to make to this plugin.

 

[Gahshunk]

Calm down, let me see what I can scrounge up here.

First, it's simply an act of professionalism to have a base plugin that is whole and complete. I'm not saying to either add or remove any abilities specifically, because I can't be the judge of that. A combination of both if you want. But if ever there is a cop out that you can "have more moves using custom abilities," this is to assume everyone knows or has time to learn the process. Plug 'n' play I say.

Specifically for moves, this is absolutely mostly directed at WaterBubble and AirBubble. A solution was brought up here and I'll surely look into it, but even though I like HealingWaters' update that removes poison and such, there are obviously some people that don't like it. Fairly, if around 30-40% of people also didn't like it, revisions shouldn't be out of the question. I understand not everyone can be appeased, but it's something else to be narrow to user input because whoever implemented the ability has decided that's the best way to do it.

 

[MeskenasBoii]

I know you share your feedback in hopes, from the passion you have over this plugin for the greater good of improving it, and I have nothing against that. However, I don't see it really helping, because I, and by other's in here who address their confusion over along with a concern of how you shared your input, this feedback isn't constructive due to the lack of details. Your spitballing stuff that we aren't sure on what exactly you're trying to share with us, without any sufficient specifications and recommendations.

For instance. You're suggesting that you want a balance out number of abilities. Yeah? Ok, so what now? Which abilities do you have in mind? Or should the developers decided upon themselves and just get rid Watermanipulation out of the blue. One down, more content to go, right?

You just want something to be made done, but you don't have any concern on how it should be done, as you haven't raised any specific ideas on how the vague thing should be done. You may as well be the first person with such an unpopular opinion that disfavors the unbalance abilities count in comparison with its cousin bending arts. Where should developers get the reference from? Akisha records?

 

[Gahshunk]

There a many suggestions on this forum for more abilities, I can't really justify using my own ideas for more abilities to help counter the heavy weight on earthbending compared to the total amount of abilities in airbending.

I guess, as a preventative measure, I'd like less focus on elements that already have more abilities than others just because a "good idea" happened to pop into someone's head. At least until the lesser ones manage to find some way to catch up.

 

[MeskenasBoii]

There a many suggestions on this forum for more abilities, I can't really justify using my own ideas for more abilities to help counter the heavy weight on earthbending compared to the total amount of abilities in airbending.

Tbh, I don't really think concept designers dig up ideas and read every one of them in great detail (they probably just take a quick look and stop it from there, which is from what I picked up through the years on staying active on this forum unlike other old-long members) anymore since there are hundreds of them. If you really can't justify using you own ideas, than just delay posting your general idea in a thread and look for a rain of thoughts: bring up discussion on other social medias and see what other people think of how that general idea could be implanted in great detail. Ask a earthbender or two (preferable those who aren't in for getting unfair upper advantage and stick to the idealogy of making stradegy balance for anyone) how they feel and think how their element could be involved.

Rant over! Yeah I do think an ability count should be balance to absolute or as close as it can get. For example, Iceblast ain't really unique ~ just a reskin watermanip projectile with a slowness effect, which really doesn't make sense with the thing-y it does ~ so I'd say either it be removed or merge into icespike ability. Been a long time I checked how many abilties each element, but from what I can recall I'm sure each element to every other is pretty (almost) insych with exact equal number it has. However, custom abilities do tend to trip all by having one element lean in a advantage/disadvantage by having greater/fewer number of techniques in stored. As for 'reducing reliance on custom abilities', I don't think there much that can be done to remedy this niche, other than omitting the tools for the creation of them (which I mention before) though that wouldn't be a bright thing to do without conjuring up backlash from the fan community. Regarding youth-inizing an ability back to it's orion's form, I don't think there are any that needs that: All ability seems fine and improved in the current state they are in right now, so shifting their attribute back might end up taking a huge stepback than received something good at all.

 

[Gahshunk]

I can get along with that. And by reliance on custom abilities, I don't at all mean it's removal. I mean more on the fact that custom abilities shouldn't be filling in the gaps of, say, having too few airbending abilities is all if ever there is an excuse to be made about the unbalanced number of abilities.

 

[MeskenasBoii]

Well actually airbending and firebending are on draw, If you count them with sub-elements (though fireshield is subjective to be omitted in future, since firemanip released it is now a replacement for it). If without them, airbending would take the win by one/two ability difference. Airbending is behind waterbending, and waterbending is a runner -up following by earthbending. Not sure If you aware, but you kept mentioning airbubble which isn't a thing anymore. It got ommited not to far from the builds.

Spoiler: EVIDENCE

A: 9 abilities + sub
W: 6 abilities + 5 subs
E: 9 abilities + 3 subs
F: 8 abilities + sub 2

Earthblast/Airswipe/Watermanip/FireBlast
RaiseEarth/AirShield/Surge/WallOfFire+fireShield(though latter is subject to be omitted from the plugin)
Shockwave/AirBurst/Torrent/Firebuurst
Catapult/AirSpout/WaterSpout/Firejet

EarthArmor/FireMani
EarthTunnel/WaterBubble/

Tremorsense/heatcontrol+illumination

Airscooter+Tornado/EarthSmash/EarthGrab

WaterArms/AirBlast/Airsuction/Suffocate
--------------

LavaFlow/IceBlast/Icespike/Extraction/Flight/PhaseChange/MetalClips/Bloodbending/HealingWaters/Lightning/Combustion

Throw in some combos, and you'll get airbending having more than water&air, following by firebending. By two technique loss/gain difference.